Looked post- i am talking about the true

[eliomelma]

Looked post why!deleted my posts! I was talking about the true. Something wrong? I was answering to unfair accuses to myself! Don't should defend! I would showing to everyone who is the man who accused me, banned from managames... Ecc...If you don't defend my from this people can 't defend myself?

[Algo4]

Talking as a mod in MG now:

- That ban was totally non-related to what happened in your match so it can't be compared. And he has stopped doing what he did to get that ban so you can say he changed.
- This a whole different tour so what happens in MG can't be taken into consideration for ITST decisions and vice versa. If you did, it'd be a biased decision. "oh look, he behave badly in MG, let's be more strict with him". Not how it works.
- Saw the replay, and even if it was accidental, 7 lobs in a single set, I think, may be worse than 6 drops in all the 3 sets.
- You already made your point so you did defend yourself well enough.
- Posts get locked just to avoid more fighting, I do that in MG, Vmoe did it here, and it's how it has to be.
I don't think that you would want a never ending discussion if you were a moderator.

[spencercarlos]

Looked post why!deleted my posts! I was talking about the true. Something wrong? I was answering to unfair accuses to myself! Don't should defend! I would showing to everyone who is the man who accused me, banned from managames... Ecc...If you don't defend my from this people can 't defend myself?

For the record Vika Azarenka is NOT currently banned from Managames, and he was banned way at his start of tournament play (that was last year) because he posted a fake score.

There in Managames you have a rule about corner serving (not allowed) and moonballs, and that has never been an issue with him, so style play was never part of discussion there.

[eliomelma]

Maybe 10 drops not 6. I copied managames post because this man accused me that on itst as everybody said , i am a FairPlay man and he was the last man that could accuse me. As i said previous i would only that one host Told him that my lobs were accidentally, you have replay , only this. Not Locking post without told him that can't accuse

[costiiforzaa]

Looked post why!deleted my posts! I was talking about the true. Something wrong? I was answering to unfair accuses to myself! Don't should defend! I would showing to everyone who is the man who accused me, banned from managames... Ecc...If you don't defend my from this people can 't defend myself?

For the record Vika Azarenka is NOT currently banned from Managames, and he was banned way at his start of tournament play (that was last year) because he posted a fake score.

There in Managames you have a rule about corner serving (not allowed) and moonballs, and that has never been an issue with him, so style play was never part of discussion there.

O dude please, his style of play was disscused from Voja and Dr.Ivo, I will not post any other replies on this topic, but please don't comment when you didn't made a research.

[Marco_Theo_81]

sorry, but now i read enough. I don't want to defend Elio, just because he is italian, but as the person he is. There is maybe no one, who is fairer than him:

Very unfortunate I couldn't play my matches this week,I especially wanted to fight for a medal in the Olympics..

We tried to play our match with elio-it didn't work as my connection was unstable.

So I told Elio to receive a walkover win because it was my fault we couldn't play but he is such a kind and fair sportsman that he insisted he would not take it by walkover.

Maybe djarvik overlooked it while distributing the points because he gave us both 4th place points,I asked him to give elio bronze but elio didn't accept it.
What a guy this italian is!

Anyway,for the records, Bronze medalist is Eliomelma.

In sportsmanship and community spirit he is Gold medalist for sure though!

and also is to say, that he did not score the points after his accidental lobs, this is what I understand.
He would accept any losses, but in this case I belive him, that his opponent played not that fair. Ok, I don't know the facts, didn't see the match.

Algo, you are right, a never ending, hard conducted discussion is not the solution. But someone should really define imperative rules for the TE tour. Like in PS3 and XBox 360 for TS4.

It would be so bad to "lose" great guys like Elio for the TE tour, just because someone new, thinks, he can play in a strange way in his favour.

[eliomelma]

- Saw the replay, and even if it was accidental, 7 lobs in a single set, I think, may be worse than 6 drops in all the 3 sets.
.

Algo you don't know me, continue to defend him.applause !post closed for me after your words

[SlicerITST]

There is no reason to bring up anything that happened in other tours. ITST is responsible for what happens on our tour and not outside that scope.

@Elio: There is absolutely no reason to defend yourself. The management, hosts and other members of this community have a lot of respect for you as a member. So can we please give this discussion a rest? Its not needed.

[costiiforzaa]

I'm not attacking Michael and I don't tell that we have to behave with him bad, because he was banned from MG tour for two weeks or that Voja and Dr.Ivo compaint about his gameplay, but we all saw that he started to play strange at his first match and he tried to lie you that my IP is like Grigor Dimitrov from MG.

[eliomelma]

There is no reason to bring up anything that happened in other tours. ITST is responsible for what happens on our tour and not outside that scope.

@Elio: There is absolutely no reason to defend yourself. The management, hosts and other members of this community have a lot of respect for you as a member. So can we please give this discussion a rest? Its not needed.

Slicer i continued because in last post he wrote that i played unfair lobs and you and vmoe that know as i am didn't told him to not accuse me.
Algo@ after your words , ad i said, i didn't need to make lobs for bring me at his level, i could exit and talk about his play style with hosts, but don't need to hit lobs, understand this. I ended the game

[Algo4]

Looked post why!deleted my posts! I was talking about the true. Something wrong? I was answering to unfair accuses to myself! Don't should defend! I would showing to everyone who is the man who accused me, banned from managames... Ecc...If you don't defend my from this people can 't defend myself?

For the record Vika Azarenka is NOT currently banned from Managames, and he was banned way at his start of tournament play (that was last year) because he posted a fake score.

There in Managames you have a rule about corner serving (not allowed) and moonballs, and that has never been an issue with him, so style play was never part of discussion there.

O dude please, his style of play was disscused from Voja and Dr.Ivo, I will not post any other replies on this topic, but please don't comment when you didn't made a research.

Send you a pm about that, I should probably not make it public.

[C4iLL]

I love Elio don't hurt him too much :/ He's the Padrino of ITST

The problem in that story Elio is that, even your great friends like me, aren't 100% convinced by the unfair behavior shown in your video...
Even if you're really appreciated, I can't defend you just because I like you.

If I would be admin I would ban any people who don't play this game in a realistic way like playing a lot of lobs in the same exchange, a lot of dropshots etc (and in my own opinion, your match should have been replayed then), but my opinion is just the opinion of a player, not of someone who is part of the staff.

You can't have the advantage of the staff (deciding who is right and who is wrong) and let the numerous inconvenients to the others (all the work to do etc).
At the end, regarding these inconvenients, their opinions need to be respected, even if it's against you...

[VMoe86]

1. Why was the thread locked?

Both Elio and Dimitrov started posting messages from ManaGames Forum, which were unrelated to the initial topic. They did it repeatedly. There is also no need to remind the ITST Management, TE Developers or Hosts of these posts: We know which players here are from ManaGames Tour and can look up the information.

For decisions on the ITST Tour these information have no influence. Besides, the one message complained about guessing, which is not forbidden. The other was about the usage of gestures during the match. So, after his ban, these two complaints are a non-issue.

2. Elio: "I want to defend myself!"

Posting these quotations from ManaGames Forum did have nothing to do with defence, you were basically attacking Michael.D without referring to the initial issue -- your match against him here at ITST.

You did write a post in which you said your lobs were accidental, that is enough defence. In this situation, it is claim ("They were accidental.") against claim ("You hit them on purpose."). No way to prove one claim or the other and no need to continue this vicious circle.

3. Elio: "Hosts and management did not defend me!"

What did you expect? First of all, Elias and I only had the .dmo file from the first set and a half (and I got it from Elias, never was contacted personally). We both watched it back then, discussed the return. More about the return down below (fifth point, in which I discuss the match between Elio and Michael), but we both agreed that it was not an effective return and no magical weapon to generate points.

Until 3-3 in the second set there were precisely four drop shots from Michael.D. Two of them were direct winners and on the other two he followed at the net. That was acceptable to both of us.

So there was no need for us to intervene. Then you posted the video on YouTube. We did not know how the actual match was played, how it went on after 3-3, but you expected us to do some action after a video containing only a handful of points, which you thought were problematic from your point of view.

For me, this was not enough to make any decision. You mentioned he hit "10 to 15" drop shots, but without having watched the whole replay such numbers can be a bit too high because you were really angry about them. For instance, Elias once wrote a match report for a match he had against Aziz_Ismail. In his first report he mentioned more drop shots than Aziz_Ismail actually hit and corrected that after having watched the complete replay.

I asked you then for the whole replay, because Michael.D mentioned lobs you hit. I wanted to make sure what was going on and now I have watched the whole match.

Conclusion: If you want the management and hosts to make decisions about matches, then you have to provide them all possible information. We cannot make decisions based on trust to some people -- we have to stay neutral.

4. Wish for rules

Making rules is a difficult task. The TE Tour is still young, it starts getting competitive and thus we will see in which areas we need rules or where manutoo can help with adjusting the game itself.

However, we definitely need some rules for oncourt behaviour. There are fines for smashing racquets on the ATP Tour, this should be incorporated to some degree here, for example.

5. Match Elio vs. Michael.D

Last night I have watched the whole match and took notes of all problematic points. In summary we have the following, looking at each set separately.

Set #1

Elio hit three drop shots, two of them winners, on one drop shot he lost the point because Michael.D got to it and won the point at the net.

Michael.D hit two drop shots, followed both times at the net and hit a winning volley.

Set #2

Elio hit three drop shots, two of them winners, on one drop shot Michael.D got to the ball, Elio tried to lob him from the baseline, Michael.D got to the lob, but Elio won the point.

Elio hit two lobs in the entire set.

Michael.D hit four drop shots, three of them were winners (he still followed them at the net) and on one drop shot Elio got to the ball, Michael.D followed at the net and hit a lob there.

Set #3

Elio hit seven lobs in the entire set. He lost all points except one, on which he made a sorry gesture afterwards.

Michael.D hit two drop shots, followed them at the net and there he lobbed Elio.

Summary regarding drop shots and lobs

6 drop shots and 9 lobs from Elio.

8 drop shots from Michael.D (less than "10-15" mentioned from Elio).

Remark on Michael.D's return

Elias, Slicer and I agreed that the return position is not fully realistic, but it was also no magical weapon. Returning from way back behind the baseline is a more effective return and reduces aces to a minimum as well. Only thing that might have helped making this return more effective is either the animations from Dolgopolov or maybe the lag during the match (that is just speculation from my side).

6. Closing comments

Good post from C4iLL.

I hope I was clear enough with my post and it helped all people involved. This took quite some time: Watching the match, reading all those posts, writing this post -- I thought I would have a bit more relaxing time after an early exit at US Open, but I felt it was necessary.

Furthermore, I prefer to have these discussion about concrete matches in the background. It is enough to use the PM system and inform people from the ITST Management, Hosts or TE Devlopers. It is much better for the atmosphere and one does not have to keep track of low-level discussions (it was embarassing what I saw last night in the TE Chat, but then, I am ignoring that), which go down to a personal level.

Finally, get back to enjoying TE!

[eliomelma]

Ok i am a devil and after this match he came out of this as white as snow and he is an angel!


Vmoe@ i posted post of managames because i was accused of cheesy lobs and i would show that the man who accused me had many strange bahaviours on Managames.
After this i lost the desire to have fun for first time in those months.

[Algo4]

No one's a devil or an angel (does those even exist anyway? ) in this situation, if you read VMoe's posts, you'll only see facts, what he needed to have in the first place to make a decision.
A moderator can't and shouldn't take parts when making a decision, which kinda looks like what you wanted, you know, you may not be right, and if you weren't the mods have to decide accordingly, same if you were right.