Bring Monster Defense back

[Ary1g]

I agree with djarvik here.

SoD isn't a really fair skill, because you definitely have an advantage on big points. Nevertheless, it doesn't lift a player to the level monster defense does.

I recently played someone I usually beat without him winning a game. Then he picked a MD/TI-setup. Suddenly, he played much much "better", I had really to go to the limit to beat him. To me, it is a clear indicator that MD/TI is still overpowered. you feel like playing against another welsh, but with more power and a bigger serve. I don't really know from which skill these angles come from - but they are there and they are heavy. furthermore, "skill" in this game means having timing, so a skill that consistly widens your timing window is problematic.

don't know if it would be a superior setup to others, as I can't judge this because of 1-2 matches, but I guess so.

I'm not talking about making MD/TI available again. Just MD. Being able to use silver coaches with MD and a few gold coaches.

I think that all the coaches banned already, can remain banned. However, I think it's unfair to ban all coaches with MD, when SoD which is the same just less frequent(though more deciding), is still available.


EDIT:
I don't think MD alone is OP. It's rather a question of what attributes and skills you pair with it. MD/TI is proven and known OP. Though it seems to me that TI is the most OP with that combination. If you're winning the match, MD doesn't really do anything, unless there is a flaw in the game which Dennie mentioned. I still wonder. Is this true? I've never felt like anyone with MD on WT can play deeper shots all the time.

[polakis]

We always listen to the opinions. We also analyze.

Just because a member has an opinion and management doesn't enforce it doesn't mean "the main characters who decide about this on this site doesn't play TS4 so don't really care". First because you are way off base. I play TS4, to my knowledge Cro and Rob do to.


You don't see eye to eye with us, that's true. But no need to attribute something that is not there. I care for ITST, tours and players more then you think and your little "digs" here and there not only misplaced, but also leave a bit of a sour taste in mouth of people who spend their personal time so you have a place to come and enjoy.

Lets stay friends and try to either discuss the subject, or not.

Monster defense: It has been discussed to death. It works when you behind in the game and match. Basically it only doesn't work when you are ahead. It makes a player better then he should be. When he is losing because he can't keep up - the system helps him. Not fair at all. If you losing- you are losing. In contrast to that the SOB works half the time when you are winning and only on the actual break points when you losing. Also not a skill that I am a fan off, not at all, but nowhere near as effective as MD. Which players has that skill that you think are over powered? Welsh? Sure it is not because of the 90-90 wings. I think that is what makes Welsh "tick", not the SOB.

98/98 - how many titles where won by this setup? How many players in the Top 10 use it? Where are these "Any bad willing guy can take it and ruin the tour if he is really good" and why do you have to include "if he is really good". Isn't it the key? ...being good? Same good 98/98 player that can "ruin" the tour can do so with other setups, including the so called "fair ones". So the key is "Being Good". 98/98 setups are not versatile enough, there are other setups that are simple better suited for winning big titles - and it shows. Believe me, the tour players want to win and if they felt that 98/98 players have some kind of significant advantage - they be all using it and the top 10, 20, 30 would include about 70-80% of 98/98 players. As it stands - it is not the case.

I wanted to say that I rarely lose to these, but you will dismiss it by saying "I am not playing on the same level" so I wont bother.

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

[djarvik]

Glad to see you coming with a contribution to the thread, Djarvik

You write: "In contrast to that the SOB works half the time when you are winning and only on the actual break points when you losing."
It works on every deciding point. Game points on serve, break points on serve, game points when returning, break points when returning, set points, and match points. It's easily noticeable. At least MD does not help you win a tight match. Only help you get back into the action.

I've played some S&V players on WT which get a lot of help from SoB in their baseline game. Very noticeable there too.

Of course, Welsh's wings are great and deserves most of the credit. However, playing Firderis which I feel is around my level in TS4, it's so noticeable when SoB kicks in! He played with 91/81 wings and when SoB kicked in, he could hit winners from anywhere. Forehand an backhand, no matter what.

Conclusion: MD only helps when you're trailing, not when ahead and winning. While SoB gives advantages on every deciding point of a match. Which is a huge difference.

EDIT: Made some edits to the post to make it more clear.
And sorry for two posts after another, Djarvik

I believe I phrased it correctly. Like I said, I dont like the skill, but is it compares with MD - not even close. The players who have it either dont need it, or dont benefit from it. Take this away from Welsh - and not much will change.

Well, Xbox has Avinash Patel and Supermassy as the consistent 98/98 players. These guys have been consistently top 10. However, I've never played Avinash when he isn't one of those 2 setups but lately I have played Supermassy in such conditions. He could barely win a point and said to me, "this player is not for me."
If Fifa Tee used 98/98 he would not lose to anybody on xbox IMO but seeing as he's banned we'll never know. Dapery also would never have lost with that setup either as his serving was already incredibly accurate etc.
98/98 makes any old player competitive, the only other setup that can do so is 100 power.

I am not saying the setup is weak. I am saying it is less competitive then other setups available. You illustrated it perfectly, only 2 players who are somewhat successful with it on Xbox tour.

I don't like that to play with that setup, but I do enjoy playing against it. If you can do well on return you can just control shot that setup to death. Cross court Flat control shots make him stumble most times.

[djarvik]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

[Ary1g]

Glad to see you coming with a contribution to the thread, Djarvik

You write: "In contrast to that the SOB works half the time when you are winning and only on the actual break points when you losing. "

It works on break points in your return games too(winning). Not only when having a break point against you on your serve(losing).

Over to another problem for me. After checking the coach calculator I found out that there's no MD builds with my preferences either. No all-rounders. I still think that there should be possible to use MD as long as SoB is available. There's no real difference. They both give the user an unfair advantage in certain situations. It's all about the subjective choice on which is the better.

SoB help you finishing a close match. While MD help you get back into the match.

Ofc, MD/TI should still be banned because it's just way unbalanced.

[djarvik]

Glad to see you coming with a contribution to the thread, Djarvik

You write: "In contrast to that the SOB works half the time when you are winning and only on the actual break points when you losing. "

It works on break points in your return games too(winning). Not only when having a break point against you on your serve(losing)

Brrrrr...

works half the time when you are winning - Game points

and actual break points when you losing - Break points


You do know the terms "Game point" and "Break point"

[djarvik]

Over to another problem for me. After checking the coach calculator I found out that there's no MD builds with my preferences either. No all-rounders. I still think that there should be possible to use MD as long as SoB is available. There's no real difference. They both give the user an unfair advantage in certain situations. It's all about the subjective choice on which is the better.

SoB help you finishing a close match. While MD help you get back into the match.

Ofc, MD/TI should still be banned because it's just way unbalanced.

So you saying all this thread is basically half-baked? Damn man.

[Ary1g]

So you saying all this thread is basically half-baked? Damn man.

It wasn't half-baked until now

However, lets not just joke this away.

I still feel like Jon Samala could have been part of tour and also the S&V guys with MD. Samala would be the pathway between Welsh and Rabari.
Maybe even good enough serve for me to try him out. 61 serve at most.

[Avinash PatelBANNED]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Play me.

[djarvik]

Supermassy amd Anivash comes quickly to my mind with 98/98...

I believe Sh0case mentioned them a few posts back, but you can "echo" him. Still only makes for 2 "good" players.

Pl m.

N

[Ali-Iqb93]

lol i wonder djarvik why dont we ever see your name in the list of online users at the bottom of forum index page?

[djarvik]

Stealth Mode

[VillaJ100]

You unlock 'ninja assassin' mode at Edberg level 10

[Vieira151]

That's funny. I seem to have it, yet I am no level 10 Edberg. Hmmm, how peculiar.

[Ary1g]

Glad to see you coming with a contribution to the thread, Djarvik

You write: "In contrast to that the SOB works half the time when you are winning and only on the actual break points when you losing. "

It works on break points in your return games too(winning). Not only when having a break point against you on your serve(losing)

Brrrrr...

works half the time when you are winning - Game points

and actual break points when you losing - Break points


You do know the terms "Game point" and "Break point"

hmmmm... yes, I do know those terms. They're the deciding points in a tennis match, right?

So you are saying: That SoB does not work when your opponent have a game point or you get a break point on your opponents serve?

If so, I have to disagree.. tomorrow.

going to bed now. good night people!