Ban attributes exceeding 90? Poll. Vote please

[Ary1g]

TS4 is a simulation game, not a stand-in for realism. It tries to give as good a representation of real tennis as it can but in a computer game world. This automatically means lots of things, for example faster than realistic tennis gameplay. It's not trying to mimic real tennis exactly but trying to blend aspects of it into a game so that it can have the best balance of both.

The mechanics of the game, the stuff that will govern how 'realistic' it is is already in place and not something we can alter. The only thing we can do is try to make the game more fun, more fair and more balanced by imposing restrictions. To make it more realistic we would have to be able to change the core of the game, not merely ban things. So arguments of 'more realistic' to me don't make any sense.

First of all I'm not a dumbhead.
I know that we will never get a total realistic tennis experience in Top Spin 4 and for crying out loud, I know we cannot alter how the game functions.

I strongly disagree with you that "the stuff that govern how "realistic" it is, is already in place". The mechanics in the game is in my opinion quite realistic* until attributes exceed 90. I think the last 10 attributes is put in the game just to appeal to a broader fan base. I agree with them, some of the funny things with a game like this is to have a insane attribute! To be able to use something that never can be reproduced in real life.
And considering this, I really can't understand why a site like this don't reqognize that?

Which brings me back to one of the questions I asked very early in this thread: What's the point of having such a grand scale tour online and focusing on keeping it as close to reality, when it comes to tournament names and such, but don't want to keep the gameplay more like reality?

Now, I don't know if there will ever be an end to this subject, but how about trying a tournament where there are not allowed to have attributes exceeding 90?

When it comes to my statements about luck I'm not entirely sure what I meant there anymore and I think luck is not the word I meant to use to explain what I wanted to say. I shall figure it out until a later moment. Too tired now.. :S

Thanks for replies!

Looking forward to see how we'll conclude this thread, if we'll ever conclude it.

*meaning how the game is realistic to it's representation of the sport. (I think)

[safe_as_milk_]

I've got to admit I'm warming to this idea, you're selling it better than most!
I've been sceptical about it from a balancing perspective, but if I ask myself whether I'd enjoy the whole experience more if the likes of Dipesa, Neuwirth etc were the dominant builds instead of the current ones, the answer would be yes, it's just a question of whether or not anyone can figure out a way to achieve it...

I definitely don't think it could be as simple as just having a 90 cut-off ... that bans jicquelle, roberts, kelly, skippetrov, ercolani and slavina outright. out of the 29 ITST matches I've played, I've only encountered any of these builds twice (one kelly, one slavina). Those are just the builds that can't go below 90 no matter how you allocate the points- there's a whole bunch of other setups that are fairly innocuous that'd be banned too that wouldn't need to be. Meanwhile, 3 formidable builds (Welch, Rabari, Babb) stay, and I wouldn't expect to ever come up against a pure SVer ever again.

[LokiSharpShootr]

Then lets try a tournament without the 4 main builds(Kelly, Welch, Babb, Rabari).

Then we can discuss the feedback and talk about what we´ve seen and heard from other players.

[Ary1g]

I've got to admit I'm warming to this idea, you're selling it better than most!
I've been sceptical about it from a balancing perspective, but if I ask myself whether I'd enjoy the whole experience more if the likes of Dipesa, Neuwirth etc were the dominant builds instead of the current ones, the answer would be yes, it's just a question of whether or not anyone can figure out a way to achieve it...

I definitely don't think it could be as simple as just having a 90 cut-off ... that bans jicquelle, roberts, kelly, skippetrov, ercolani and slavina outright. out of the 29 ITST matches I've played, I've only encountered any of these builds twice (one kelly, one slavina). Those are just the builds that can't go below 90 no matter how you allocate the points- there's a whole bunch of other setups that are fairly innocuous that'd be banned too that wouldn't need to be. Meanwhile, 3 formidable builds (Welch, Rabari, Babb) stay, and I wouldn't expect to ever come up against a pure SVer ever again.

Glad to hear that you're positive to my idea. I suggested in a post to try limiting it to 91 for starters, maybe with an exception with the reflexes for a SV build which was at 93. I think that the only way of finding the best balance we have to start testing. We will quickly figure out which builds is way overpowered to others and maybe we can limit those builds to silver coaches? Just an idea I thought of lately. Those players that become to overpowered can be restricted to silver coaches. That way we'll not loose builds, we'll just loose a couple of builds with specific coaches. At the same time we will be able to control it because the "silver builds" will only have one trait, even though we have to expect everyone to be gentlemen and ladies enough to not cheat. Anyway, cheaters will always be busted so I can't imagine that to be a problem.
Also we could start a new tradition of writing in private message if you're using a gold or silver build. That way it will be much easier to see if someone is trying to use banned builds.

What do you think about this idea?

[Ary1g]

Then lets try a tournament without the 4 main builds(Kelly, Welch, Babb, Rabari).

Then we can discuss the feedback and talk about what we´ve seen and heard from other players.

I want to see if more builds can join the tour. I don't see that as a possibility if we just leave out 4 builds. There's still around 20-30 builds(I think) that have attributes over 90/91 so some of them will probably step forth then.

[Ary1g]

Just checking that you're watching the thread, Djarvik:

Is there a possibility to maybe post the poll right on the front page in a news story? Because I think there could be a lot of votes not being used as I think that many don't bother checking the forums as much as the more hardcore users here

[Ary1g]

A full day without any answers..?

[Ary1g]

Why arent anyone answering? I think that this should be worked more with. Just look at the poll. There's twice as many yes than no.

It isnt hard to just tell what is so impossible with my suggestions?

There have not been any really good arguments for not testing some of these suggestions.

[Rob ITST]

There also haven't been any good arguments for why it's needed.

[Ary1g]

There also haven't been any good arguments for why it's needed.

Then explain how theres 70% yes rather than no.

[RainingAmoeba79]

But if there is a 90 CAp, Rabari and Welch=wayyyyyyy overpowered.

[Ary1g]

But if there is a 90 CAp, Rabari and Welch=wayyyyyyy overpowered.

Please check my new forum post and poll and see my suggestion.

[LokiSharpShootr]

But if there is a 90 CAp, Rabari and Welch=wayyyyyyy overpowered.

Please check the coach calculator. Drew welch, Slavina, Ercolani, Skippetrov, Gallo(expect one build), Claire Roberts, Jiquelle will all be banned completely with a 90 attribute ban. Leaves only Rabari, which we can discuss how to deal with.

Drew Welch 18/2, 86 FH 86 BH, 63 Power, 88 stamina, 79 speed, 40 volley, reflexes 50, serve 58.

Please check the coach calculator.

I stopped posting because of this

I want to see if more builds can join the tour. I don't see that as a possibility if we just leave out 4 builds. There's still around 20-30 builds(I think) that have attributes over 90/91 so some of them will probably step forth then.

there is no way the hosts are banning 20-30 builds, sorry man.

[Ary1g]

there is no way the hosts are banning 20-30 builds, sorry man.

Yes, there is a way and it will benefit everyone playing on this site except of course those who use these builds and benefit from them.

I have made a new forum post with a suggestion to how this rule should be.
Hope all take a look and vote on it. Please leave a comment too.


Here a link to the new post and poll:
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... t=15788%22

[Ary1g]

Just posting my suggestion so we hopefully can continue this discussion here since the management found it appropriate to just lock the thread where we had a lot of good discussions and questions. Though they will probably lock this one too.

The main rule is that no attribute exceeds 91 with these exceptions.

Welch can only be used with a level 19 player or less and can't have both wings exceeding 84.
Babb can't be used with more than two red and two orange attributes.
Claire Roberts can be used with a limit at 93 on reflexes.
Skippetrov can only be used with a level 18 player. (Serve 93)
Michael Kelly banned.
Remy Ercolani can only be used with level 18 player.
Rabari can't be used with more than two red attributes.

With this rule suggestion there will be 52 out of 53 gold coaches available to the tour.

Use the coach calculator to review my suggestion.
http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/v ... hp?t=14169