Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I honestly don't think the return has to be tweaked. May be I am not good enough but I never managed to return that well and become a diesel returner...It's already very very hard to break one's serve and I really don't want to play tie-break in every match.

Returning is too easy right now. There is no need in creating a good returner. You can return just fine with anyone. They tweaked serves (I like the serve change imo), making it harder for S&V/Big servers to pull ace after ace, now it's time for the return. Return skills, diesel returner/return serve counter, are useless because of this, and having high reflexes as a baseliner is not necessary as you can attack any serve with 40 reflex.
Bad returners should make a lot of unreturns, give easy floaters, stagger more, and should not be able to attack serves unless the server is weak. Just like how s&vers shouldn't be winning baseline rallies, bad returners shouldn't be returning well. Why put points into reflex, when I can put that into power or strokes?
Reflex, stamina, and speed, especially reflex and stamina, are the useless stats right now.

[djarvik]

I agree somewhat. I wouldn't say its too easy, I would say there is not enough difference between the 50 reflex and 70 reflex. Right now, the strokes play a larger role in returning then Reflex. This should be fixed a bit. Again, not a huge issue, but a minor one.

Remember, the timing window for serves just changed. I give it about a week to ten days and we will see people adjust and aces will return, grated at a lesser rate, that is the intent.

...I think it is too early to deem returning as "too easy", better way to put it: "more emphasis on return skills" needs to be implemented.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

I agree somewhat. I wouldn't say its too easy, I would say there is not enough difference between the 50 reflex and 70 reflex. Right now, the strokes play a larger role in returning then Reflex. This should be fixed a bit. Again, not a huge issue, but a minor one.

Remember, the timing window for serves just changed. I give it about a week to ten days and we will see people adjust and aces will return, grated at a lesser rate, that is the intent.

...I think it is too early to deem returning as "too easy", better way to put it: "more emphasis on return skills" needs to be implemented.

You can still hit the corners with the serve after the patch, it's just harder to find that sweet spot consistently now than it was before. It seems more random and sensitive. Which is good imo.

What I mean by "too easy" is that they can always get it back and put themselves in a good position to get into a rally. They don't have to worry about it going out or into the net, or giving a good server easy balls to put away, etc. All they have to worry is how far they were pulled out wide, and whether they have enough time to chase down the ball that will be hit to the open court. It's not necessarily the fact that people haven't gotten used to the serving yet, i've run into a couple good servers after the patch, it's that everyone can return too easily without having to worry about many things that happen on the return. They can also place the return where ever they want, with great pace at times, hitting outright winners off great serves. This is done all the time with characters that have 50 in reflex.
That is the main problem I have. Getting your racquet on the ball means, 99% of the time, it will automatically coming back to your opponent.
Right now the return seems to be based only on strokes and timing. Which is the problem, cause it gives baseliners too much strength. Once you have a great baseliner, by default he is also a great returner even though he has 45 in reflex.

Yes you are right, there isn't a difference between 50 or 70 reflex when it comes to returning. Infact it would be wise to spend those points on something else.
Sorry if I'm coming off a bit angry, lol. It's just my all rounder should be a good returner 79fh 62bh 73rf, so when i see people with 80fh 75bh 50rf returning just as well it annoys me and I transfered a bit of that anger over here . Sorry about that.

Yes, more emphasis on returning needs to be implemented for sure.

[djarvik]

you coming of just fine man!

I just disagree. I use 62 serve and I get plenty of Aces after the patch. So I just think we need time to get used to new serving and returns wont be "too easy".

Never once did I feel that I cannot get control of a point after I timed the serve well. That is why I say there is no issue here, not a big one at least.

[venom400]

Serving is still effective , granted you vary your pace and spin a bit , you may not get that many aces , but a dead ball in the middle of the court should
Tilt the server odds on your favor

Another thing is that in rl a flat serve if hit correctly can b ereturned for a winner by using the servers pace , this is why me and many pros serve with kick and slice instead .

Try it , it works

[InfamousSlappy]

I just had a match against Xohrum and anybody who has ever played against me in TS3 know that I am not a sore loser and I don't complain about things over pm's or otherwise.

In this match I lost 6-0 6-1. I don't think I'm the greatest player or the worst player. But the reason why I lost this bad is because of the slicing. Almost every slice he hit whether it be on the forehand (which really peeve me) or the backhand, either went for a winner or put me out of position so badly I could hardly make a decent shot.

Even his defensive slices were so ridiculous they put him directly on the offense. Combine that with his TI/MD I had absolutely no chance. I couldn't even hold serve one time. The one game I managed to break him he didn't use one slice. Then after that game he right back to using the slice and the rest is history.

He must've had about 20 slice winners in this match. Some when I was at the baseline with my mostly defensive baseliner! I couldn't believe it. Even in world tour nothing like this has happened to me as of yet.

I think I am still in shock after what transpired. I even waited 10 minutes before I started writing this.

[Sherlock 117]

^^^ That's not really addressing player balance issues per se.

For the posts a few pages back about S&V becoming ineffective with the changes, I haven't played since the balancing patch, but before the patch I was using a S&V female and after losing my first 2 matches I won about 20 in a row. I think it's not that difficult to hit winners from the net either when you use the normal and power volleys on a ball that is above the level of the net. I feel like volleying is like it should be.

Another comment I saw was that players don't make putaway volleys. Yes most don't because they don't take time to practice the volley. I do and have won plenty of points with a guy with 39 volley and 52 reflexes. You just have to come in at the right time and make the first volley count.

I can't comment about what it is like now (though I will be playing some tonight), but at least before the changes to serving I felt that S&V was reasonably effective.

[Rob ITST]

Precision topspin shots
The ability to pull your opponent outwide with precision topspin shots is a bit overkill. Could the angle on these shots be toned down. Most times rallies come down to "who can pull the other out wide more".

It seems to me that the big problem with the angled topspin is that you can't counter them with a down-the-line shot (not with much accuracy at least). In real life, hitting such an angle can be dangerous because you have to much court to cover - it's easier for your opponent to hit with the same angle, or they can go down the line off of what is basically a short ball (assuming they are in good position). So, you have to use such a sharp angled shot at the right time (such as when your opponent is far behind the baseline). In TS4, there doesn't seem to be a bad time to go for the angle.

It is, though, too easy to hit the angle to begin with, especially off of deep shots. A combination of reducing the angle, and allowing for better down-the-line shots in response makes the most sense to me.

Or, maybe I'm just not doing something right, but if I try to go down the line, I have very little accuracy - so, I get stuck in the war of angles.

[Sherlock 117]

It's not just you. If you go for a down the line shot when you are out wide it usually winds up in the middle of the court.

[Oscarzero]

It seems to me that the big problem with the angled topspin is that you can't counter them with a down-the-line shot (not with much accuracy at least). In real life, hitting such an angle can be dangerous because you have to much court to cover - it's easier for your opponent to hit with the same angle, or they can go down the line off of what is basically a short ball (assuming they are in good position). So, you have to use such a sharp angled shot at the right time (such as when your opponent is far behind the baseline). In TS4, there doesn't seem to be a bad time to go for the angle.

It is, though, too easy to hit the angle to begin with, especially off of deep shots. A combination of reducing the angle, and allowing for better down-the-line shots in response makes the most sense to me.

Or, maybe I'm just not doing something right, but if I try to go down the line, I have very little accuracy - so, I get stuck in the war of angles.

My experience is that if it's a "less than perfect" angled top spin, I would need to take a guess for the next shot because I could not cover both angled top spin and down the line. Even if it's a perfect angled top spin, you can still get a winner by making a perfect power flat shot.

[Oscarzero]

It's not just you. If you go for a down the line shot when you are out wide it usually winds up in the middle of the court.

True, especially for a "good" shot.

[Mack2300]

Indeed, that would really help balance out the crazy topspin angles if hitting down the line was more accessible. Being forced to hit an extremely well-timed flat control shot DTL when you have an open court seems silly and unnecessarily difficult.

[Caexander Arist]

Hi guys I am new to the forum but i have been reading some of the threads and i wanted to know why everybody seems to bash the T/I M/D.
setup when i first went in to character creation the first character i created without any outside influence was this type it is my favorite and most fun to play yet it seems like everybody believes it has some advantage but i believe everybody should be able to create there play build and not be made to feel like a cheater because of it once again i did not have anybody telling me to build it this way it just seemed natural to my play style.

[venom400]

Hi guys I am new to the forum but i have been reading some of the threads and i wanted to know why everybody seems to bash the T/I M/D.
setup when i first went in to character creation the first character i created without any outside influence was this type it is my favorite and most fun to play yet it seems like everybody believes it has some advantage but i believe everybody should be able to create there play build and not be made to feel like a cheater because of it once again i did not have anybody telling me to build it this way it just seemed natural to my play style.

Honestly it is not the top spin TI or MD that is broken , it is the couch , th fact that these two skills are so good and the fact that this couch gives you +15 fh +15 bh speed and stamina on top of those skills is ejat is broken right now someone can create a characyter with 65 fh 65 bh anf with these bonuses they end up with 80 fh 80bh sometimes even more , so no weakes and lot of everythin else , actually 85 fh or bh is strong an with no side attack

Take these bonuses away and the couch will be fine

An of course it feels fun and natural
, because you beat everyone else that doesnt have this build , there is no weekness itbis all strenght on the skills that mather the most

Its not cheating , its just not balanced correctly to give other builds a chance

[maderer]

I would like to post a bug. After serving the rectangular scorebox (15-40 etc) at upper left doesn't disappear. In the middle of rally the scorebox is not needed. If I hit the ball in that direction I find it disappear behind the scorebox for a few moments until opponent hits it back. This can be disrupting sometimes.