Character Development System strong Balance?

[o Sinna o]

In the Top Spin games of old, those extra skills or bonus characteristics would boost your innate skills. Take the "top spin" stat in TS2, your top spin shots would never go out. Perhaps it will have the same effect, by not so much adding skill points, but enhancing innate abilities in your player.

Hm understand. Djarvik what do you think?

[djarvik]

In the Top Spin games of old, those extra skills or bonus characteristics would boost your innate skills. Take the "top spin" stat in TS2, your top spin shots would never go out. Perhaps it will have the same effect, by not so much adding skill points, but enhancing innate abilities in your player.

Hm understand. Djarvik what do you think?

You confusing the two. Coaches provide 3 things:

XP bonuses
important when your player is not maxed out, lets you earn more XP per match.

Attributes bonuses
will increase certain attributes.

Skills
will give you certain in-game skills, there is no stats bonus for that, but it will reward you with better shots in certain game situations, or more speed, or stamina, or serve etc...

[o Sinna o]

In the Top Spin games of old, those extra skills or bonus characteristics would boost your innate skills. Take the "top spin" stat in TS2, your top spin shots would never go out. Perhaps it will have the same effect, by not so much adding skill points, but enhancing innate abilities in your player.

Hm understand. Djarvik what do you think?

You confusing the two. Coaches provide 3 things:

XP bonuses
important when your player is not maxed out, lets you earn more XP per match.

Attributes bonuses
will increase certain attributes.

Skills
will give you certain in-game skills, there is no stats bonus for that, but it will reward you with better shots in certain game situations, or more speed, or stamina, or serve etc...

Ah ok now you cleared it up. I was just not sure if these Extraskillz really effect your Gameplay but you just said they will and that's what I wanted to know.

You know I am always asking you because you have a good Knowing about these things.

[JJ_DUBZ_87]

I pretty much had it AL just the phrasing wasn't exact.

[o Sinna o]

I pretty much had it AL just the phrasing wasn't exact.

Hehe true.

[Sherlock 117]

total of 20 distributed 3 different ways. Anyone cares to try and tell us how many different variation possible to basic stats?

Once we know that - throw in 100 different coaches and you end up with so many different ways of setting your player up.

Of course there will probably end up being 10 or so coaches that are way better then others.

Anyone cares to put a number on this?

There will be 462 distinct ways of distributing the levels. If you wish to know I can explain how to arrive at this number.

This will definitely NOT be enough to give you the exact distribution of points you want (which is good, most likely it eliminates distributions like 90 on 3 stats and everything else below 70). Even with the coaching bonuses it will not be enough to get an exact distribution.

However, I think it would be possible to focus on one stat and get the exact number you want for that stat. However, the other numbers might end up horribly different from what you're looking for.

[Rob ITST]

There will be 462 distinct ways of distributing the levels. If you wish to know I can explain how to arrive at this number.

I would, my statistics are pretty rusty.

Are you counting the different combinations of skills? I did a rough count, and it looks like there are about 30 different skills. Assuming each player can have any combination of 3 skills, I'm coming up with over 4000 different combinations - or am I doing something horribly wrong?

[Sherlock 117]

There will be 462 distinct ways of distributing the levels. If you wish to know I can explain how to arrive at this number.

I would, my statistics are pretty rusty.

Are you counting the different combinations of skills? I did a rough count, and it looks like there are about 30 different skills. Assuming each player can have any combination of 3 skills, I'm coming up with over 4000 different combinations - or am I doing something horribly wrong?

Look at it this way. Pick any of the three skills, this skill can be anywhere from 0 to 20. Let the number you choose be x. Now focus on a different skill, after choosing x, this skill can be anywhere from 0 to 20-x since the total of all three skills can only be 20. After choosing these 2 skill levels, the third is already determined since the sum has to be 20 (assuming we are only talking about maxed out players). This will take care of every possibility.

So the problem is reduced to figuring out how many ways you can choose the first two skills. If the first skill is 20, the second skill has only 1 choice. If the first skill is 19, the second skill has 2 choices, and in general, if the first skill is x, the second skill has 21-x choices. That means the total number of choices is the sum of all numbers from 1 up to 21 = (21*22)/2 = 462

At first I thought the answer was 20^3 = 8000 since each of the 20 skill points could be allocated anywhere, but then you have to remember that giving a skill first to offensive baseline and then to defensive baseline is the same as doing it in the other order. So you have to divide by something that gives the number of permutations possible...

Ughh, I hate probability and statistics. I'll just stick to algebraic topology, thank you very much

[Sherlock 117]

There will be 462 distinct ways of distributing the levels. If you wish to know I can explain how to arrive at this number.

I would, my statistics are pretty rusty.

Are you counting the different combinations of skills? I did a rough count, and it looks like there are about 30 different skills. Assuming each player can have any combination of 3 skills, I'm coming up with over 4000 different combinations - or am I doing something horribly wrong?

One more thing, I think what you are thinking here is that each skill can be independently chosen from 0 to 20, giving 21^3 = about 9000 choices. But the choices are not independent. If you choose a number for one skill, like 16, the other two are far more restricted now. There are only 5 choices for the other 2 skills.

[jayl0ve]

There will be 462 distinct ways of distributing the levels. If you wish to know I can explain how to arrive at this number.

Ughh, I hate probability and statistics. I'll just stick to algebraic topology, thank you very much

Now there's a dying art...

I remember the first time I learned of Algebraic Topology...I dunno about you but for me it was one of those JFK 'where were you when you heard...' moments. Unforgettable.

[Rob ITST]

I think what you are thinking here is that each skill can be independently chosen from 0 to 20, giving 21^3 = about 9000 choices.

Actually, I think we're talking about two different "skills". I was taking about: passing shot sniper, diesel returner, etc. There looks to be about 30 or those, and each player gets 3. Then, I was thinking about how many different characters you could create when you combine that with all the different levels.

To be honest though, I really haven't looked much at how the whole coach/levels thing works, so I don't know if I'm even making any sense.

EDIT: After looking a bit, I guess that you have a total of level 20, which can be distributed between SV, offense, and defense? And the level you reach in each of those 3 areas determines how many points you can assign to each attribute (ie, 78 on FH)?

[djarvik]

Yeah, but you not doing the actual assigning. Some coaches may give similar skills, so the numbers are: 20 levels distributed 3 ways and 30 skills with 3 per player and no repeats.

[Sherlock 117]

@Jaylove: Yeah, I remember where I was when I heard about it. In a classroom. I'll never forget that day...

But yeah, that's basically what I'll be doing for a living for the next 30 years.

@Djarvik: I was just doing the level distributions in my count. I guess I don't fully understand the coaches to include that. Are you sure there are 30 distinct skill bonuses and any 3 can be chosen? My guess would be, say there are 30 gold coaches, and they each carry a distinct collection of added skills, then you just multiply the number I gave by 30 to get the total number of unique distributions:

462 * 30 = 13,860

But this would only be true if any given level distribution can use any gold coach, and it sounds like that may not be the case.

[djarvik]

You right. Not enough details yet. I will find out the concrete numbers and get back to you.

[jayl0ve]

@Jaylove: Yeah, I remember where I was when I heard about it. In a classroom. I'll never forget that day...

But yeah, that's basically what I'll be doing for a living for the next 30 years.

.

I'm just messing with you man

I hate math! hahaha. It literally makes my head hurt.