Sim Character Discussion

[Andymachine]

I know bashmikov seems unpopular but he is very slow moving i find , and he is vulnerable if people can hit behind him deep , esp i find that as i like to play most rallies infront of the baseline, and the good players can exploit his movement and lack of mobility easily

[alex13090]

So basically each game should be serve->risk return? While bashmakov only has to risk some on return games?

No, I think Bash should have to risk on return games just as much as his opponent - and if he is slow enough, his opponents should be able to hold serve just as easily as he can. Also keep in mind that when I say risk, I don't necessarily mean RT+LT. I just mean that normal returns should not be enough to give someone with 90 serve/power very much trouble - you should have to either take away his time with RT returns, or make him move with LT in order to get him in a position where he cannot put the ball away.

He should be no easier to play with than any other character, but at the same time, he should still be a ball basher.

I always LT against bashma, only one that works a bit is lt+topspin crosscourt closest to net. otherwise rt or lt (if we get a clean hit on a return) arnt enough except if bashma messes up. With 191cm and 76 return against a weaker serve though, much easier.

I know bashmikov seems unpopular but he is very slow moving i find , and he is vulnerable if people can hit behind him deep , esp i find that as i like to play most rallies infront of the baseline, and the good players can exploit his movement and lack of mobility easily

When I faced tonedawg, maximo and voldemort who used him they were very able to rally and counter punch. In fact if i didnt end the point after one or two hits i'd lose it.

Ah why am i bothering, havn't lost to a bashma yet. I'll let those who feel they undeservedly lost deal with the bashma bashing

[Rob ITST]

I have a few questions, that may help me better understand the PS3/Bash problem:

I keep hearing that Bash is faster on PS3. But aren't all the other players too? Djarvik told me Bash moves like he has 80 on speed. So, what does a guy who actually does have 80 on speed move like? And why can't an 80 speed guy run down Bash's shots? Does it not matter what the speed rating is? Is everyone the same speed?

And for the guys who think Bash is too powerful, how are you playing him? I find that standing close against him is disastrous. But standing further behind the baseline makes it much harder for him to put balls away - his power has less effect since you have time to run his shots down, and he can't generate enough angle to make you cover much court. If you find he can generate the angles, then maybe his speed is not the problem, but his strokes are really what needs to be lowered.

I've also found him very hard to use against Nakamura and Gray. Their 90 returns just land so much deeper, and with just enough extra pace, that I had a much harder time hitting aggressive shots on the first shot after the return.

[maximo]

my bashmakov:
FH 58 VL 78
BH 55 PW 90
SR 90 SP 44
RT 76 ST 69


i have not used cannon, but i think that he needs some modifications, he is too strong, very similar to bashmakov.

[maximo]

i have played a lot with bashmy, and i don´t need risk for win points, and i can defense very well, his 54 speed is enough.

[djarvik]

I have a few questions, that may help me better understand the PS3/Bash problem:

I keep hearing that Bash is faster on PS3. But aren't all the other players too? Djarvik told me Bash moves like he has 80 on speed. So, what does a guy who actually does have 80 on speed move like? And why can't an 80 speed guy run down Bash's shots? Does it not matter what the speed rating is? Is everyone the same speed?

This is more or less true. Its not like having 80 over 40 doubles the speed. The main problem is that increase in speed rating is not worth it. Its not enough of the difference.

This was first thing to surprised me when I joined PS3. I was amazed and how many people were playing with 70 or less on speed. In fact, most did. On Xbox, you just can't get away with 70 or less.

[Andymachine]

Yes but Djarvik ive played now against Bishops and Nakamuras used by Coke and Hoffs and they know how to win , doesnt matter who its against , speed wise yes its pretty much equal for most players i think , i think its just a case of again knowing how to play a certain character

[Andymachine]

p.s i find bashmikov very slow to move and can be easily caught out but by players that know how to of course

[petrelli83]

I don't think its good to have 2 separate lists, its just not what we had in mind. A unified list works best.

If any of PS3 guys would like to test Bashmakov let me know. I will be on this weekend. Your help is appreciated.

I think we need both strokes in 50's. I propose something like that:

FH 58
BH 55
SER 90
RET 75
POW 90
VOL 74
SPE 51
ST 67


There are 2 issues that I have encountered playing Bashes on PS3: they can play a solid defense, running many balls down and more importantly - counter punching. Second issue is that strokes 60+and 90 power is simply too strong for a decent risker, they generate too much angle and depth. Combined with 90 serve - its 1-2 punches all day. It is almost impossible to simply chase down the ball in this situation even with the fastest guy on the roster. This makes anyone playing against Bash risk return too much, if you don't - you lose the point.

So the key in fixing this is to make 1-2 punch reachable. Let Bash score on a 3rd shot or risk for 1-2 punches. He should not be able to constantly do 1-2 punches with no risk against fastest players on roster, let alone rest of the roster, much slower guys.

I like your idea to reduce fh/bh...

[Rob ITST]

The only thing I don't like about the setup above is that he would no longer be a baseliner.

[Coolhand Texas]

i have played a lot with bashmy, and i don´t need risk for win points, and i can defense very well, his 54 speed is enough.

Yes thats what the others are pointing out. He was made to be an attacking baseliner, but he is able to play defense as well and they are trying to fix it, where he cant chase down balls like a counter puncher

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

I understand peoples concerns re Bashimkov, i agree that to have 90 on serve and power is a decent asset and wings at 60's is too much so perhaps need reducing a bit.

However Cannon I would still disagree that he needs changing at all. He has, i believe, the weakest stat on all of the setups at 51 on its on a wing!

Decent players who can exploit any SIM character weaknesses will do well. I have played intelligent poeple who go to my weak side all the time, making it really hard to return and my timing has to be perfect.

The bottom line is that it just boils down to if you are good enough. There is no way someone who is crap but uses Cannon and I use say Striker who is gonna gget one over me.

Take Anil for example, uses different players all the time. I use Cannon all the time because he is perfect for me:

Cannon vs Bishop 6-7 7-6 6-4
Johnson vs Cannon 6-4 6-7 6-3
Lopez vs Cannon 6-7 7-6 7-6

Etc etc. So please will someone tell me where the advantage with Cannon is?

Plus he is as slow as a slug 58, again an area that alot of players would like a decent stat on.

If people just don't like power players, then don't play SIM, play ping pong.

A ferrari is only as good as its driver

[Coolhand Texas]

Anteros thrashed me yesterday when i was using bashmakov and he bishop. Its the person behind the player. (cause he is freaking amazing)

He was producing angles while i was with power, which is how its supposed to be played. but i definately wasnt able to run down every ball or even half (thats probably just because he was hitting sick angles), , but speed is already so low anyways. so it probably wouldnt matter that much

[brgerflipr]

Copy & Pasted from PS3 forum:

Cannon and Bashmakov need to be modified. Unless, we want the PS3 sim tour to be 90% Cannons & Bashmakovs, I suggest this happen real soon. It is absolutely pointless to play any other characters against these 2.

If you take a very good player (like Pocho) and give him a Cannon or a Bashmakov, it is pointless to choose any other characters. Take two players close in skill and one has either Cannon or Bash, that one will ALWAYS win.

I'm not complaining about my loss, I'm just stating a fact. As more and more players lose using bishops, grays, naka's, lopez, bucci, lorenz, etc..... eventually we're gonna all turn to bashmakov or cannon.

I totally love the idea of the SIM tour and will continue to support it. i hope this comes across to ITST as constructive input and nothing more.

[petrelli83]

Copy & Pasted from PS3 forum:
If you take a very good player (like Pocho) and give him a Cannon or a Bashmakov, it is pointless to choose any other characters. Take two players close in skill and one has either Cannon or Bash, that one will ALWAYS win.

copy & pasted from ps3 forum:
completely agree with u.
if two players are at the same level and one of them use cannon or bashmakov,he'll win surely.

that's the problem