ITST adopts new set of rules

[Indiantonike]

To be honest I don't see how these restrictions are gona change much, if you ask me you need to put a cap on certain stats including Power and BH and FH.

I suppose only time will tell

Yep. The new trend: using powerful player who has near 80FH/NH, 55-60 speed but running as good as defender player who has 80 speed, and do cross courts ball as they would have MD. Enjoy

[OuiMr BersonBANNED]

To be honest I don't see how these restrictions are gona change much, if you ask me you need to put a cap on certain stats including Power and BH and FH.

I suppose only time will tell

Yep. The new trend: using powerful player who has near 80FH/NH, 55-60 speed but running as good as defender player who has 80 speed, and do cross courts ball as they would have MD. Enjoy

Yes It's exactly the same

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

^^^

To be honest I don't see how these restrictions are gona change much, if you ask me you need to put a cap on certain stats including Power and BH and FH.

I suppose only time will tell

That's what the rule test tournaments are for. Since we're still in the process of testing rules for the normal tour, the banning of these coaches will have to do for now.

[Crotatsuya]

I'd really love to say "I told you so", but that's not appropriate enough.
Therefore I'll go with: I informed you thusly!

[djarvik]

I want to get a point across, as some seem to not understand the intent of these rules, or any rules ITST introduces.

Let me first clarify for you how the game works and how it treats "Skills", so you can better understand where I am coming from.

It is important to understand the concept of what exactly Skills do. These are not magical abilities, these are not something additional that other players don't have or are incapable of. Skills are merely increased timing windows. When you have a TSI skill, that doesn't mean your to spin shots are somehow better then other players, they are exactly the same. What is different is the timing window to achieve the "perfect" timing on these skills. In this example, Top Spin shot benefit from increased timing window, hence they are easier to hit with "perfect" timing and hence they are more consistent at producing angles. In addition, this timing window starts at a slightly larger size then normal and increases with every top spin shot to a maximum size, then stops. Same goes for every skill out there more or less. All Skills do is increase timing on a situation or shot basis. I'll be happy to explain each skill and what it does and how it does it, just ask.

Every player is capable of producing same angles, same power, same precision assuming similar FH or BH rating. Certain skill make certain timing windows for certain shots or situations larger.

So to whoever say "I can still hit the same angles" - of course you can! Why shouldn't you ? ...but now it is just a tad harder to hit them, especially so on the run and especially so to so it consistently. If you see no difference whatsoever - then you are likely a great player and hit your timing window every-time spot on. In this case Skills are rendered useless to you and only stats on your strokes, speed, power etc matters.

The notion that rules are somehow aimed towards Top players and now they are"going down" is beyond naive. If anything, this will allow Top players to be even more dominant. But it will also prevent weaker player from getting an easy win over similar level player not using those Skills to help "perfect " his otherwise not so perfect shots. This yields closer matches, more competition.

Now to the part of why we make the rules. We make the rules, in general, to somewhat protect the integrity of the game from extreme repetitiveness, loopholes, exploits and alike. We make the rules to make the game fun to play for "majority" of our tour. We carefully consider both, Forum feedback and private feedback.

The rules for TS4 were made with all the above in mind. A game that heavily depends on short cross and is generally consists of excessive short cross top spin rallies doesn't need help via TSI + high stroke stats.

MD makes all your timing windows larger as soon as you are behind in the point in any given game. The skill makes you better when you are NOT better. This is a skill that needs to originate from the user (you), you either work under pressure or you don't. Should it just affect one timing window, we would allow it. But since this one affects all shots - its gone.

The coach with TSI/PS is addressed in much of what I said above. Add to that the PS, which is a skill that keeps your Slice timing window too large. I am sure you are aware of the fact that Slice is overpowered in this game, and in all TS games. This setup brings you very close to a full time MD. Basically you have large timing windows on two out of 3 baseline shots...in addition to a relatively high strokes.

To address the Power "problem". Is there one? ...likely. There is one in ATP as well. So for now, we are not addressing it yet. We are once again back to "feedback collection" mode so we can better serve our community. I may not be a top player, but I do offer my personal know-how and help to anyone who wishes, just ask.

Here, you have a glimpse into my mind, into a bit of information that helped us make decisions that we make. Once again, this is a small part of a decision making process. Hopefully it will satisfy some of you, and yet some - nothing will.

[supinesmokey13]

I want to get a point across, as some seem to not understand the intent of these rules, or any rules ITST introduces.

Let me first clarify for you how the game works and how it treats "Skills", so you can better understand where I am coming from.

It is important to understand the concept of what exactly Skills do. These are not magical abilities, these are not something additional that other players don't have or are incapable of. Skills are merely increased timing windows. When you have a TSI skill, that doesn't mean your to spin shots are somehow better then other players, they are exactly the same. What is different is the timing window to achieve the "perfect" timing on these skills. In this example, Top Spin shot benefit from increased timing window, hence they are easier to hit with "perfect" timing and hence they are more consistent at producing angles. In addition, this timing window starts at a slightly larger size then normal and increases with every top spin shot to a maximum size, then stops. Same goes for every skill out there more or less. All Skills do is increase timing on a situation or shot basis. I'll be happy to explain each skill and what it does and how it does it, just ask.


Every player is capable of producing same angles, same power, same precision assuming similar FH or BH rating. Certain skill make certain timing windows for certain shots or situations larger.

So to whoever say "I can still hit the same angles" - of course you can! Why shouldn't you ? ...but now it is just a tad harder to hit them, especially so on the run and especially so to so it consistently. If you see no difference whatsoever - then you are likely a great player and hit your timing window every-time spot on. In this case Skills are rendered useless to you and only stats on your strokes, speed, power etc matters.

The notion that rules are somehow aimed towards Top players and now they are"going down" is beyond naive. If anything, this will allow Top players to be even more dominant. But it will also prevent weaker player from getting an easy win over similar level player not using those Skills to help "perfect " his otherwise not so perfect shots. This yields closer matches, more competition.

Now to the part of why we make the rules. We make the rules, in general, to somewhat protect the integrity of the game from extreme repetitiveness, loopholes, exploits and alike. We make the rules to make the game fun to play for "majority" of our tour. We carefully consider both, Forum feedback and private feedback.

The rules for TS4 were made with all the above in mind. A game that heavily depends on short cross and is generally consists of excessive short cross top spin rallies doesn't need help via TSI + high stroke stats.

MD makes all your timing windows larger as soon as you are behind in the point in any given game. The skill makes you better when you are NOT better. This is a skill that needs to originate from the user (you), you either work under pressure or you don't. Should it just affect one timing window, we would allow it. But since this one affects all shots - its gone.

The coach with TSI/PS is addressed in much of what I said above. Add to that the PS, which is a skill that keeps your Slice timing window too large. I am sure you are aware of the fact that Slice is overpowered in this game, and in all TS games. This setup brings you very close to a full time MD. Basically you have large timing windows on two out of 3 baseline shots...in addition to a relatively high strokes.

To address the Power "problem". Is there one? ...likely. There is one in ATP as well. So for now, we are not addressing it yet. We are once again back to "feedback collection" mode so we can better serve our community. I may not be a top player, but I do offer my personal know-how and help to anyone who wishes, just ask.

Here, you have a glimpse into my mind, into a bit of information that helped us make decisions that we make. Once again, this is a small part of a decision making process. Hopefully it will satisfy some of you, and yet some - nothing will.

would mind explaining how the semi-volley king works and spin-serve master

[Indiantonike]

To address the Power "problem". Is there one? ...likely. There is one in ATP as well

If you want to compare Top Spin to ATP, you have to compare everything.

In ATP, power isn't a problem, cause having a powerful game means taking a lot of risks.

Just look at the Nadal-Isner stats, and particulary Isner's:

1st serve: 68 %
Unforced erros: 58
Average speed 1st serve: 128 mph
Average speed 2nd serve: 101mph

Ok cool.

Now compare them to a Top Spin player who should have a 0/20/0 build. It looks something like:

1st serve: 90 %
Unforced erros: 5
Average speed 1st serve: 125 mph
Average speed 2nd serve: 125mph

Lol ?

So, please, don't compare ATP and Top Spin. Top Spin 4 will never be a simulation game. You could tell me about the balancing update (are they still working on ?), but 2k won't change all the gameplay, not before TS5.

I am not a soothsayer, but I think the number of people using powerful build (FH/BH 80 - PWR 80+ - SPE 60- ) will really be amazing.

[djarvik]

To address the Power "problem". Is there one? ...likely. There is one in ATP as well

If you want to compare Top Spin to ATP...

I do not.

[djarvik]

would mind explaining how the semi-volley king works and spin-serve master

Sure.

Semi-Volley king opens up a larger window for on the rise shots, allowing you more margin for timing error while still getting good results. Spin-serve master opens a bigger timing window for your spin serves, both Kick and Slice.

[tigerofintegrity]

That's a good assessment Djarvik. It is most likely true that skills are more useful in covering weaknesses. When you say MD increases the timing window of your shots, I think that's half-correct. The other half is that punishes you less for mistimed shots. So when MD kicks in, your bad shots won't be as bad as they normally would be, it may even end up a really good shot.

As for the power problem, it may be true that a lot of people will end up using a power player but that's not because they're the best build out there. I actually think power players aren't that great and I rarely have any difficulty with them. Honestly don't see power players dominating at all so I don't think everyone will flock to that type. I think we will see different player types out there.

[tigerofintegrity]

Semi-Volley king opens up a larger window for on the rise shots, allowing you more margin for timing error while still getting good results.

Actually, this one I disagree on. What I notice is, if you are too close to a decently paced ball and you hit it right after it's bounced you will normally bunt back a loopy, slow, weak ball even if you perfect time it, especially if you try to power shot it. With this skill that doesn't happen and it's treated like the ball was at normal height when you played it and it's possible to power a hard, deep flat shot off it.

[djarvik]

That's a good assessment Djarvik. It is most likely true that skills are more useful in covering weaknesses. When you say MD increases the timing window of your shots, I think that's half-correct. The other half is that punishes you less for mistimed shots. So when MD kicks in, your bad shots won't be as bad as they normally would be, it may even end up a really good shot.

As for the power problem, it may be true that a lot of people will end up using a power player but that's not because they're the best build out there. I actually think power players aren't that great and I rarely have any difficulty with them. Honestly don't see power players dominating at all so I don't think everyone will flock to that type. I think we will see different player types out there.

You are correct as am I. I just didn't break it down enough. There a few more levels.....like the fact that there are actually 4 distinctive timing windows all with different sizes: Too soon, Too late, Good, Excellent. So yeah, you right, the other windows do get affected as well by skills.

[djarvik]

Semi-Volley king opens up a larger window for on the rise shots, allowing you more margin for timing error while still getting good results.

Actually, this one I disagree on. What I notice is, if you are too close to a decently paced ball and you hit it right after it's bounced you will normally bunt back a loopy, slow, weak ball even if you perfect time it, especially if you try to power shot it. With this skill that doesn't happen and it's treated like the ball was at normal height when you played it and it's possible to power a hard, deep flat shot off it.

That ^ (bold)

The window can take a full affect only if you are in position. I tried to make it simple, but you not letting me You right again, positioning will affect how "effective" the shot will be regardless of the size of the timing window.

I wish you could play on Xbox someone like Anil, who takes the ball extremely early on the rise, without the use of Semi-Volley skill. He basically chokes you by taking your time away. I heard Holla plays similarly, by taking the ball early and not using Semi-Volley. I myself can do that as well on a semi-consistent basis

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Yeah semi-volley king is perfect against people that like to hit really deep baseline shots that can sometimes land at your feet. It's hard to get anything off balls that land right at your feet. Even when you get perfect timing, your character goes through the whole "I'm got jammed motion" and slightly pushes the ball over the net, giving your opponent a floaty ball to hit. Semi volley king nullifies deep shots that land at your feet, and makes your character return deep shots back like they were normal shots. It's also great for someone who likes to come in to volley or make approach shots, so you don't get jammed at the feet while approaching.

[Tuurbine]

Now that we are asking.... how drop shot artist and smell of blood work?