Warm-ups (Xbox)

[Xohrum85]

This isn't a warm up match, but just played Xohrum in the 1st round of US clay court championship. His character

fh 89
bh 79
srv 72
vol 39
pw 79
sta 85
spe 60
rf 47
topspin invasion, monster defense

Mine
fh 79
bh 62
srv 70
vol 53
pw 67
sta 69
spe 68
rf 72
shot counter, return serve counter

I lost 6-3 6-2

Lol, djarvik/cro/slicer/fedfan/etc when are you mods/admins planning on putting forward a sim tour? This is starting to look like WT all over again.

I also don't understand why you think that is a cheesy setup. Seems quite standard to me. At the warm-up tournament i played a guy that used 100 power, 90+ FH, 90+ serve...i think that ís quite cheesy..

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

I think the point that Hawkeye Miihawk is making is absolutely spot on. However at this stage I appreciate it cannot be categorised as foul play until an official ruling goes on it via ITST.

The Monster / Topspin skill is used by roughly 90% of players on the world tour and more like 95-100% in the top 10 or 20. This is by no means a coincidence that everyone has chosen the same skill set. Quite simply the combination, as Hawkeye said, gives a distinct advantage, end of in my books.

I guess if you look at TS3 the 90-40 tour was a maxed out tour where most players actually did chose to go upto the ceiling of 90 in all the strong attributes (Wings, Serve, Power). In TS4 the difference now is that we have XP levels AND Coach skills which yield advantages.

So for a member looking at the XP stats in this post with 79 or 72 on power or serve and trying to compare it to TS3 it cannot be done - I appreciate on "Paper" the stats look SIM , which they are more so, however it is the Coach skill of Monster Defense / Topspin Invasion that suddenly turns this setup into a beast for opponent members playing without it.

Puttu and I have played tons of matches, all are very close and scores of 6-4 or 7-6 in sets is the norm. Then I created a Topspin / Defense guy with only 70 power and suddently I am drumming him. Then he uses his own Topspin / Defense (T/D) against my other and its a totally different story. Not only the scoreline but also the T/D player dominating all the points.

For me the T/D setup and BIG setups (90+ Power / Serve) need to have their own tour (90/40) once the ruling comes. Members will want it I guess. Then a SIM tour needs to follow - it is, our destiny!

Baggy

[Hollaa Itz Mike]

just so u know...in real tennis...almost all shots are hit as topspin shots as well...but to be honest i just dont see how a setup with no stats over 90 is cheesy

i feel like this game was made pretty balanced, and that u guys are just nitpicking here..

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

just so u know...in real tennis...almost all shots are hit as topspin shots as well...but to be honest i just dont see how a setup with no stats over 90 is cheesy

i feel like this game was made pretty balanced, and that u guys are just nitpicking here..

Hey Mike,

I understand where you are coming from - I guess the point is though that we are identifying what is SIM and what is not, well I am anyway

As in TS4 there was SIM tour and a 90/40 tour as you know - so as it stands in TS4 my argument is that Monster Defense and Topspin Invasion (T/D) + big setups need to have a "90/40" equivalent tour. Also, just for the record I never said that over 90 is cheesy, just that over 90 (or whatever the stacked limit will be), needs its own tour.

Guys like Hawkeye, Puttu and others want a more balance tour, i.e. SIM and then everyone will be happy. Don't get me wrong, everyone could use the T/D coach skill setup and compete against the other T/D setups but for some people it just ain't that fun. Horses for courses I suppose.

Anyways, you and I are due a proper match, the lag last time in those 2 games was just terrible!

Baggy

[djarvik]

I think the Top Spin Invasion on itself is fine. Sure, it is a strong skill... but what makes it really strong is the Monster Defense.

Basically, every-time you behind in the game, your shots are simply better more precise, and with TSI they become EVEN better with each shot. I think such a skill should have not been combined with another full-time skill, but rather a part-time...like a serve skill or return skill.

I think all skill sets should be as follows: one full-time, one part-time.

TSI combined with RSC would be a more balanced skill set. Or a MD with FS. ...and so on.

[Hawkeye Miihawk]

Whats wrong with his setup? It looks pretty good to me, especially since Devilish is playing a guy with a 100 power.

My long rant on page 6, plus what Baghdad has been saying, and what djarvik posted above ^^, explain what is wrong with that coach.

I have no problem with topspin invasion. Just like slice invasion, topspin invasion can be troublesome, but that isn't the problem. It's the fact that monster defense makes topspin invasion too godlike, and then the player just starts pulling out insane angles and shots out of nowhere. It makes everything they do better. The make less errors, and their lobs/flat/topspin(especially topspin because of topspin invasion)/slice shots become better. That's way too much.


@Hollaa Itz Mike
You don't need a big serve with huge power to have an unrealistic character. People don't complain about the topspin invasion and monster defense characters because they are serving big, but rather because of how good their character becomes. They can break you so easily, and when you're about to break them, they can always make a comback. Every time you're about to hold your serve, they become better. Everytime you're about to break, they become better. The ridiculous angles with so much pace just keep popping out of nowhere anytime they are trailing, and then add that to the fact that they are making less errors.


Also, like baghdad said, it depends on what you consider a SIM character. That thread I have up is what I consider sim like characters.

[Sherlock 117]

just so u know...in real tennis...almost all shots are hit as topspin shots as well...but to be honest i just dont see how a setup with no stats over 90 is cheesy

i feel like this game was made pretty balanced, and that u guys are just nitpicking here..

They aren't saying the setup is cheesy with it's stats, they are the setup with the coach giving Monster Defense + Topspin Invasion is too dominant and is ruining the possibility of there being variety in setups. I agree with this, and Baghdad's evidence of playing multiple matches with the same opponent and both of them trying out the MD+TI combination confirms it.

If you don't use this combination, you are handicapping yourself tremendously. Using this combination gives you a leg up on EVERY possible other setup.

I'm fine with their being some setups which are better than others. But when there is one setup which is clearly better than any others it ruins the game. There should be at least 5 great setups which are approximately equal to give the game good variety.

I think they should nix precision boosters permanently, the number of shots landing close to the lines (and short in the court on cross court angles) is just too high to make it fell like a real match. All I find myself doing in matches is trying to stay away from getting pulled outwide, or try and get myself back in the point when I'm 20 feet outside of the court. This, when it happens every point, is not tennis.

[BluudyEEfingaz]

Beat Devilish today in the WS Warm Up QF It felt REALLY good but it in no way was an easy task. The first set I broke his serve once and managed to hold throughout to win 6-3. In the second set we took turns breaking each other's serve as I pulled it out FINALLY to win 7-5. I don't mind the 100 power game because where the player exceeds in power they lack in other areas. I found myself winning most of the long rallies and Devilish's flat balls landed outside the lines and into the net often. Some balls even clipped the net to slow down a few times. Even though it was hard to beat his 100 power Shreekapova (which I don't recall ever hearing her shreek) with my 85 power Venus I felt we were pretty closely matched. Good game Devilish.

[NickZ3535]

I think being ultra dominant even with 70 range servers will be a lot better once 2k fixes the return/moving across the court glitch. There are a lot of guys who move out wide towards the alleys and then serve out wide every point. With that glitch it's almost impossible to get back into the point after you return.

Also, if we start a SIM tour, or even in a regular tour, I think we should outlaw moving the character any farther out than he starts on serve. It makes for completely unrealistic serving, 1) because nobody in real life serves from there, and 2) 2k still has not learned that you can get incredible and completely cheesy angles from that wide out.

As for the comment about the TSI/Monster defense setup leading to easy breaks - I completely disagree. I use that setup and against better players I still find it almost impossible to break. Almost all my matches with quality opponents are decided in tiebreaks. I do agree, however, that it takes too many errors out of the game. I have hit a ton of "too late" shots that never go out. If they need to do one thing to this game, they need to make "too late" shots go out, ESPECIALLY when you are going for one of those ridiculous angles.

[Mack2300]

just so u know...in real tennis...almost all shots are hit as topspin shots as well...but to be honest i just dont see how a setup with no stats over 90 is cheesy

i feel like this game was made pretty balanced, and that u guys are just nitpicking here..

They aren't saying the setup is cheesy with it's stats, they are the setup with the coach giving Monster Defense + Topspin Invasion is too dominant and is ruining the possibility of there being variety in setups. I agree with this, and Baghdad's evidence of playing multiple matches with the same opponent and both of them trying out the MD+TI combination confirms it.

If you don't use this combination, you are handicapping yourself tremendously. Using this combination gives you a leg up on EVERY possible other setup.

I'm fine with their being some setups which are better than others. But when there is one setup which is clearly better than any others it ruins the game. There should be at least 5 great setups which are approximately equal to give the game good variety.

I think they should nix precision boosters permanently, the number of shots landing close to the lines (and short in the court on cross court angles) is just too high to make it fell like a real match. All I find myself doing in matches is trying to stay away from getting pulled outwide, .

That sums up TS4 pretty well in one line. It really is a battle to see who can out-angle/pull the other player outside the tramlines first so they can hit down the line. This may sound fine but when it forms the pattern of play for EVERY point..well it is ridiculous.

[tenjintenkai]

I agree with Baghdad, Sherlock, Mack and the others. These short angles crosscourt festivals become annoying. My first created character also has the TSI and MD... now i created other characters with more balanced/sim stats. I suck even more now but its more interesting. I made Ferrer (oh damn im bad at the player creator, he looks like schwarzeneger) and he's not powerful at all but has 69 reflex, which is good.
Again, i agree with Djarvik about the skills. I dont think the coaches are balanced. Some gold coaches are way more efficient than others. The other thing i don't understand is why some coaches give you +50 stat boost while others only +35. That makes some drastic differences between created players and it narrows the choice of skills if you want to be competitive during tournament (ITST, i couldnt care less about WT)

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

The other thing i don't understand is why some coaches give you +50 stat boost while others only +35. That makes some drastic differences between created players and it narrows the choice of skills if you want to be competitive during tournament (ITST, i couldnt care less about WT)

Agreed Tenjin for sure, I can't understand why they would do that either but hey.

I have created a very balanced player last night, not played him online yet because only just changed the gold coach skills (and the trawl of playing an exhibition to hit their targets). Anyways...

My guy is as follows:

4 S+V / 10 OFB / 6 DFB

FH 70, BH 73, SR 72, VO 50, PO 70, ST 70, SP 65, RE 70.

Shot counter + serve counter (coach skills)

The only thing i will miss is a slighly stronger Wing dropping from 80 to 70 but apart from that the rest like Stamina and especially relfexes are a big bonus!

@ Tenjin - we really need to play soon man, that other time you had just been in a 3 set ITST battle so were exhausted when I was waiting for you

[brazegoesmoo]

The other thing i don't understand is why some coaches give you +50 stat boost while others only +35. That makes some drastic differences between created players and it narrows the choice of skills if you want to be competitive during tournament (ITST, i couldnt care less about WT)

Agreed Tenjin for sure, I can't understand why they would do that either but hey.

I have created a very balanced player last night, not played him online yet because only just changed the gold coach skills (and the trawl of playing an exhibition to hit their targets). Anyways...

My guy is as follows:

4 S+V / 10 OFB / 6 DFB

FH 70, BH 73, SR 72, VO 50, PO 70, ST 70, SP 65, RE 70.

Shot counter + serve counter (coach skills)

The only thing i will miss is a slighly stronger Wing dropping from 80 to 70 but apart from that the rest like Stamina and especially relfexes are a big bonus!

@ Tenjin - we really need to play soon man, that other time you had just been in a 3 set ITST battle so were exhausted when I was waiting for you

This is my build right now, though I'm more leaning FH than BH. Kinda frustrating online, but I refuse to change it (cause I'm stubborn or proud). The random win against high-graded TopSpin Invasion/Monster Defense or the 100 POW/100 SRV/95 FH is totally worth it though

[Baghdad Baghdatis]

This is my build right now, though I'm more leaning FH than BH. Kinda frustrating online, but I refuse to change it (cause I'm stubborn or proud). The random win against high-graded TopSpin Invasion/Monster Defense or the 100 POW/100 SRV/95 FH is totally worth it though

Nice, we should play sometime

Just played my Semi Final match in the Warm up:

Baghdad IV vs Puttu Puttuu 4-6 1-6

Puttu played an amazing match tonight. All of our matches have been very close and hard to divide us at times - but he was quite simply the better play in the Semi.

I lost my serve in the first game of the match, at 30-40 doubled faulting to lose my serve. But to be fair he put pressure on me from the stops and I was 30-40 down for a reason!

From there I found it hard to get my composure back and whilst I created a break point in the first, Puttu, as always, was clinical in holding and serving it out. The rest went on serve. 6-4

The second set I struggled to hold onto my serve in the first game but I managed to somehow. He really started to play right through me and whilst the quality of the rallies was still there he was starting to dominate most of the points as my player tired. I could do little to save the next few games and then the match. 6-1

My character: 70, 73, 72, 70, 50, 70, 65, 70 - serve + serve counter


Puttu's Soderling: 80, 80, 51, 46, 61, 80, 94, 67 - reach expert + 1 other
(something like that).

The thing with playing Puttu is that he gets every ball back, like me really, however being drawn into long battles with him saw my player tire faster. Even though his power is only 61, once he got his serve in he was so hard to budge at times. Both wings at 80 were causing me some trouble at times but more so the speed and stamina was the difference as well obviously some excellent timing and shot making my Sir Puttu

Also, my serve with the stick is VERY accurate and VERY varied with all 3 serves and direction / paces yet he managed to return so well today - power to you man.

As I said to him after the match he is one of the few players I don't mind losing to because (quote) "it simply adds to our long term Saga that is our history"....

I am with pleased with the Semi Final and even more pleased to know I have some stiff competition out there.

Baggy

[Puttu puttuu]

As you know most of the people we beat on itst just send us a GG! Well played

I really appreciate your attitude.I know I can be a grumpy bastard after a loss! Let's hope I can work on that hehe !
As for the match, well I know exactly how well you can play. That early break changed a lot , it could have gone either if I had not go that lead. Plus , looking back on our previous exo macthes,I knew you could impose your game. I mean you've done it in the last few days, remember that 6-4 on Thursday ... I felt hopeless

This is the best I have played so far and I am glad I could bring another gear to my game.

Thanks Baggy,

This is just the beginning my man !