Can we also have a pro players tour ?

[djarvik]

also does it matter that you play a couple of Roddicks in one tournament? the fact that it is a human behind the character (i.e online and not computer controlled) will surely make every match different anyway.

i think it will be really fun and exciting to see the pros on an ITST tour. It will look a lot better and feel like we are in a more real event.

come on give it a chance at least!

Once again, Roddick is an example. Nothing more.

Roddick = best setup in my example, but he my not be. You can replace Roddick with any other Pro.

BTW - its true that human plays for "Roddick and all different but, all will have lots of power and huge servers, So essentially they will all play the same way. Just some will execute the plan better, some worse.

[AndyMurray ITST]

but does this make it any less enjoyable? I dont think so.

It is still you against an opponent that you have to beat.

You can say exactly the same about power players. I know that we have with TS3 limited power to 80 but it still means that most people play with a power of 79 or 80. People try to gain as much advantage as they can so what difference does it really make? As soon as people feel that Aggressive baseliners have an advantage, then a tournament will be full of aggressive baseliners. I dont see this as any different to over-using Pros.

It should be fun to challenge and try to beat Roddick if you feel he will dominate! Try to beat him with Fed or Nadal?

i think you will be surprised as peoples choices of players. I think it will be more varied than you think

[djarvik]

You can say exactly the same about power players. I know that we have with TS3 limited power to 80 but it still means that most people play with a power of 79 or 80. People try to gain as much advantage as they can so what difference does it really make? As soon as people feel that Aggressive baseliners have an advantage, then a tournament will be full of aggressive baseliners. I dont see this as any different to over-using Pros.

It should be fun to challenge and try to beat Roddick if you feel he will dominate! Try to beat him with Fed or Nadal?

EXACTLY my point. Its the same but worse. Why worse? ...all players look alike.

Trust me, the notion of fantasy and playing against a pro will evaporate after 37th Roddick and you will be forced to look at the same player over and over again, same strokes, same power, same everything.

While you make it a personal challenge to beat one pro over the other, most competitors here will make a challenge of getting to ITST #1. That will require using a strong setup.

[AndyMurray ITST]

is it only worse because all players look alike? I have to say i have never been bothered about what any created character looks like when we play the regular tour. i would much rather look at a well made pro character because it adds realism to the game like we are watching a real match

[ANILTJE]

It's hard to say if it will be a succes. I think the pro players are very strong. Maybe a good thing. Don't know.

But my favorit player (Wawrinka) is together with Courier the ones that have the same as a custom player. I think 540? And Lendl even less.

The rest of the players are more.

I get killed by any good Agassi or whoever

The 20 points extra do a lot.

So for me personally that would be a problem But if you don't play the ones that have less points it wwill be fine. Sure.

[VillaJ100]

Everyone plays to win that's why I don't SV all the time in tournaments, because I can't make it a consistently winning strategy. However its the one I have most fun with so in exhos I will a lot more. All depends on my mood really haha

[Sherlock 117]

I disagree with your two opinions Al:

1) Everyone would basically choose the "strongest" 1 or 2 characters (Roddick, Nadal, Agassi), where by strongest you actually mean easiest to win matches with (not the same).

2) Matches will be boring because of this.

I know you don't like me to refer to other games, but since VT3 matchplay system basically forced everyone to use the pros it is the perfect place to look at whether or not it worked. In my opinion, it provided the MOST variety of any online tennis system I have ever seen.

Sure, Hewitt was the most frequent opponent I came across because he was the "strongest" in the same sense you used earlier. But I also ran across plenty of Nalbandian's, Ferrero's, Roddick's, Ancic's, Henman's, Monfils's etc. They could all win if played properly, and they could all be beat by a good enough player with a different pro. I ended up using Monfils because he was the player who matched up best with the type of strategy I like to use. Each pro had definite weaknesses that could be exploited (though Hewitt's were a little tougher to exploit).

I feel like TS4 would be similar. You would get many people using Roddick, Nadal, Agassi, as exhibited by the numbers on the 2K Open. But as also exhibited by the 2K open, you would get really fun matches because they are more balanced. Also, as people play the game more and play against more Roddick's, they learn how to exploit Roddick's weaknesses better. The "strongest" character will still be the most used, but I don't think the tour would culminate with 60 Roddicks and 4 Nadals. The distribution you gave would actually be pretty pleasant in my opinion, and would give MORE variety than what is currently on WT.

I disagree with 2, for the same reasons others have mentioned. Yes, playing 3 Roddicks mean that they will all have a big serve and powerful strokes, so they will all have similar strategies. But their strategies and tendencies WILL be different.

[djarvik]

In VT3, the players were more simliar, if that makes sense. The skills were closer to each other. In TS4 there a much wider spread.

In VT3, all player were relatively good movers, because of the mechanics of the game. Not so in TS4.

IN VT3 all could hit the ball relatively strong a clean. Not so in TS4.

there is lots more, but these are the main points..

Especially, when you have a 2K open, a perfect example. Play 20 matches there and write down which opponents will you meet. You will be surprised by results.

We will discuss the idea at a later time though, but for now, we need to start the normal tour, take a hard look if there any rules needed etc..

Lets agree to disagree.

[djarvik]

.... Also, as people play the game more and play against more Roddick's, they learn how to exploit Roddick's weaknesses better...

...so why we have never learned to exploit weaknesses of power players in TS3, or weaknesses in other TS games?

Certain weaknesses, no matter how hard you try, will never be exploited enough.

[jayl0ve]

wHAAAAA??

Take it from me, there are huge differences in movement and shot strength between the characters in VT3 For example it's literally almost impossible to even begin a baseline rally if you're, say, Dent or Henman playing somebody like Hewitt or Monfils. There's even different stats for lateral movement and vertical movement in VT3!

Also what Sherlock said about there being a wide variety of players in ranked matches is 100% true and success was absolutely not limited to Hewitt players, Hewitt players were just the most annoying of the bunch and Hewitt is an exception to an otherwise balanced game.

[djarvik]

wHAAAAA??

Take it from me, there are huge differences in movement and shot strength between the characters in VT3 For example it's literally almost impossible to even begin a baseline rally if you're, say, Dent or Henman playing somebody like Hewitt or Monfils. There's even different stats for lateral movement and vertical movement in VT3!

Also what Sherlock said about there being a wide variety of players in ranked matches is 100% true and success was absolutely not limited to Hewitt players, Hewitt players were just the most annoying of the bunch and Hewitt is an exception to an otherwise balanced game.

I played you in VT, you won 3.1 it was rather close (I used Dent)

I mean yeah, for sure there are differences, but at a much higher then "noob" level.

In TS4, these differences are way more pronounced. Don't agree?

[jayl0ve]

That was 1 time Al!

Once, foo!

And what about the time we played TS2!!?? And I blasted that ass with Roddick

[djarvik]

True.

I mean, the only point I am arguing here, is that I think it will be boring. That's all. I think most here want to create players rather then use pros, hell, this is a HUGE part of TS games!

The only way I see such tour succeeding in TS is if there is no way to get balanced customs.


What I really would love, is if they would give us 3 skills, like the Pros have. Then we could use the Pro players in regular tour. That would be cool.

[Sherlock 117]

Ok, good point. The pros were perhaps a little more balanced than they are on TS4, but not a lot moreso.

I'm not so sure that Roddick's weaknesses are "not exploitable" though, unlike the power game in TS3.

And yes, if we were able to use pro players in the tour, that would be highly awesome (and attract newer players to ITST who don't want to create a custom).

[djarvik]

OMG guys! Please, stop with Roddick

Roddick was only taken as an example of strong setup. Hell! I could have used Murray!