September 11 2001 - thoughts, a decade on....?

[coke4]

ps how do you explain the collapse of WTC7 coke? No plane crashed into it. WTC7 = the 9/11 smoking gun

I have never heard of anything about WTC7's collapse, however the debris hitting it could have mad it structurally un-sound.
I have read reports that firefighters saw a bulge in its structures that made it structurally unsound, but I dont know
I do know that if the govenment were behind it, they would have blown it up at the same time or just after the WTC's, not hours afterwards, they are not that stupid

[beltic caldy]

A plane crashing into a building is more than enough to make it topple

That wholly depends on 1) the plane and 2) the building

The empire state building had a plane crash into it in 1945 (it was a B-25 bomber) - 11 people were killed, but not only did the building not collapse, but it suffered NO SIGNIFICANT structural damage - this despite the plane being FULL of fuel.

Watch the movie on that link mate (9/11 Blueprint for Truth - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 360042032#) - then get back to me about planes and buildings ; )

rich

Something moving at 300+ miles per hour and weighing 150+ tonnes with lots and lots of petrol on board will knock down a building.
The shock waves and damage it would send down the building and make it very un-stable, the crashing of another plane into a building right beside it would add to the stress even more.
The height of the building add more stress to the structure. One collapses, which then causes the other to collapse.
And no building can only be knocked down by explosives, this is a whole lot a bs, the same way the way the Titanic was unsinkable.
I have talked to a lot of engineers about this, engineers who arent being influenced by the potential of earning a lot of money the way these conspiracy theorists are, they all say the same thing, the force of a plane is enough to knock down a building like the WTC's, the ESB is much more sound structure wise.
Now im not saying that the planes did bring down the building, im just saying they could of easily

And no building can only be knocked down by explosives, this is a whole lot a bs, the same way the way the Titanic was unsinkable.

??????? No building can only be knocked down by explosives.

? Buildings are wholly/exclusively destroyed by explosives regularly, in controlled demolitions? I think I must not be understanding your point here?



As regards your comments about 300+ mph, and 150+ tons etc - again, even a basic understanding of physics should tell you that the mass of the 2 objects in question needs to be taken into account - never mind underlying substructures. Reject the hypotheses if you will Coke, but not with this kind of argument - meet facts with facts please.

[djarvik]

As a 9/11 survivor and therefore first hand witness, as an Israeli army officer, I am telling you with certainty - I have seen first hand a lot of crazy ****, including terrorism..... 9/11 wasn't it.

There are plenty of theories on how and why, but all of them have holes.

This happened plenty of times in history (in other forms) and will happen again.

Holy crows Al - you were in New York/The Towers that morning? Thats pretty amazing man. I'm a little unsure how you can say 9/11 wasn't 'terrorism' - the sheer scale presumably? Irrespective of the who's and whys and all that lot, I'm just pretty shocked with the official reports.

This goes to you too Nitten - have a look at the movie on that website (top of this thread) - the direct link = http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 360042032#

I've watched all the 'big' movies and documentaries several times myself (and I seriously do mean all) - this is a pretty 'dry' presentation of facts and evidence - basically says that WTC7 had........HAD to have been brought down by controlled demolition. If that's true, and I agree that it is, then why not Towers 1 and 2 also? And if these things are true - IF - then we as a people surely cannot just say 'these things happen' , no?

Please don't take offence at my tone or questions Al - a recent poll taken in New York on this subject (over a 1000 people polled apparently), 49% of those polled stated that they believed they were being lied to re the official accounts.

I had held hope that Obama might be more inclined to lift the lid on this, but he seems to be with the 'business as usual' crowd. Doesn't matter - I've signed the petition on their site myself - may make no difference, hell probably won't - but it feels a little better to feel like I'm doing something other than feeling bad about this crime.

I worked there, God (or someone/thing for that matter), made me fall asleep on a train, the first time in my life....and I slept thru my station. Had to comeback one stop. When I was about to enter the building - the first plain hit.

There are many reasons why I say this was not "terrorism" - as it being sold. Most reasons are based on real terrorism/terrorists I have encountered in Israel.

Whatever it was (you can call it terrorism), it was only the "excuse". This was not an attack. This was a prelude....it was very clear.....all you had to do is follow the bred crumb trail.....terror alerts....etc.

It's all crap, there is no way for us or anyone for that matter being able to defend ourselves from terrorism without surrendering ALL and I mean ALL our freedoms.

Israel has the best defense in the world, they have to, they are in the heart of things.....and terror acts happening there on weekly basis. I have seen them with my own eyes. There are no "threat" .... just attacks, with responsibility taken AFTER that.

What we had here is US was scare tactic politics, within the democracy it is not an easy thing to do...you know....freedom and all. So that was one way to justify doing certain things.

I lived in Soviet Union as well, they had a different way of same scare tactics....a bit bolder....there was no democracy barrier...but essentially the same.

Guys, there is NOTHING new happening in the world. All that is happening was and will be happening for hundreds of years. There always will be conspiracies, theories, power struggle...etc...Internet and video is what fuels it now, before it was harder to fuel.....but we were lied to for hundreds of years.

The only thing I am happy is that the attempt of scare politics in democracy essentially failed. That means that there is still a chance of us remaining relatively free people. But hold on.....the real change in that might come from different place all together, not the war and politics, but rather Pharmaceutical. The easiest way to control the population, scare them is when a tactic is used that has no one to blame. When a virus breaks out, you will not have Muslims to blame. You will want to live so you will comply with a new order, designed to contain the virus......but that is another movie all together.

[beltic caldy]

ps how do you explain the collapse of WTC7 coke? No plane crashed into it. WTC7 = the 9/11 smoking gun

I have never heard of anything about WTC7's collapse, however the debris hitting it could have mad it structurally un-sound.
I have read reports that firefighters saw a bulge in its structures that made it structurally unsound, but I dont know
I do know that if the govenment were behind it, they would have blown it up at the same time or just after the WTC's, not hours afterwards, they are not that stupid

And you don't find it 'odd' that you, along with a great great many people never heard of WTC7 collapse? No doubt at all that falling debris may have hurt the structure of WTC7 - no doubt that fire damaged the structure too - i don't have any problem with that - where I DO have a massive problem is the manner and fact of it's actual collapse - it is simply impossible for a building of it's nature to collapse only as a result of fire. Watch the video of the collapse Coke and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

ps - pay special attention to 3 things here - the uniform collapse all around - the speed of the collapse - and the centre-section-collapse, followed instantly by the main collapse.

[AMAZING ZIZOU]

September 11th is with the JFK case one of the hugest lie of humanity.
If the US government could lie once about Kennedy (and the Warren report with the hteory one the unique bullet) they definately can do it again. And THAT IS WAHT THEY DID.
The official version is nothing but nonsense.
We'll have a glimpse of the truth in half a century, not less

[coke4]

??????? No building can only be knocked down by explosives.

? Buildings are wholly/exclusively destroyed by explosives regularly, in controlled demolitions? I think I must not be understanding your point here?



As regards your comments about 300+ mph, and 150+ tons etc - again, even a basic understanding of physics should tell you that the mass of the 2 objects in question needs to be taken into account - never mind underlying substructures. Reject the hypotheses if you will Coke, but not with this kind of argument - meet facts with facts please.

Of course buildings can be knocked down by explosives, but no building can be solely knocked down by explosives, we arent able to make structurally sound buildings. I have seen buildings, modern buildings built by some of the worlds top architects, that is cracking due to the fact it has 3 fans in the centre to create power, this is knocking down a buildind which could apparently only be knocked down explosives. This is just architects BSing.

The mass of the building is also irrelevant in terms of the collapse.
Let me explain a bit better
You got to remember, the plane crashing meant the area above the plane crash was in majority left unsupported, put that together with the stress it was eventually going to collapse. When it collapsed in combined with the structure already being pushed to the brink due to the plane crash would crumble under the pressure of it collapsing in on itself.

[coke4]

And you don't find it 'odd' that you, along with a great great many people never heard of WTC7 collapse? No doubt at all that falling debris may have hurt the structure of WTC7 - no doubt that fire damaged the structure too - i don't have any problem with that - where I DO have a massive problem is the manner and fact of it's actual collapse - it is simply impossible for a building of it's nature to collapse only as a result of fire. Watch the video of the collapse Coke and tell me what you think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

ps - pay special attention to 3 things here - the uniform collapse all around - the speed of the collapse - and the centre-section-collapse, followed instantly by the main collapse.

No doubt it is dodgy, and btw I had heard of it, just not in great detail.
Remember I am not saying it is or is not a government conspiracy, all I am saying is that a plane crash is more than enough to brink down the building

[beltic caldy]

As a 9/11 survivor and therefore first hand witness, as an Israeli army officer, I am telling you with certainty - I have seen first hand a lot of crazy ****, including terrorism..... 9/11 wasn't it.

There are plenty of theories on how and why, but all of them have holes.

This happened plenty of times in history (in other forms) and will happen again.

Holy crows Al - you were in New York/The Towers that morning? Thats pretty amazing man. I'm a little unsure how you can say 9/11 wasn't 'terrorism' - the sheer scale presumably? Irrespective of the who's and whys and all that lot, I'm just pretty shocked with the official reports.

This goes to you too Nitten - have a look at the movie on that website (top of this thread) - the direct link = http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 360042032#

I've watched all the 'big' movies and documentaries several times myself (and I seriously do mean all) - this is a pretty 'dry' presentation of facts and evidence - basically says that WTC7 had........HAD to have been brought down by controlled demolition. If that's true, and I agree that it is, then why not Towers 1 and 2 also? And if these things are true - IF - then we as a people surely cannot just say 'these things happen' , no?

Please don't take offence at my tone or questions Al - a recent poll taken in New York on this subject (over a 1000 people polled apparently), 49% of those polled stated that they believed they were being lied to re the official accounts.

I had held hope that Obama might be more inclined to lift the lid on this, but he seems to be with the 'business as usual' crowd. Doesn't matter - I've signed the petition on their site myself - may make no difference, hell probably won't - but it feels a little better to feel like I'm doing something other than feeling bad about this crime.

I worked there, God (or someone/thing for that matter), made me fall asleep on a train, the first time in my life....and I slept thru my station. Had to comeback one stop. When I was about to enter the building - the first plain hit.

There are many reasons why I say this was not "terrorism" - as it being sold. Most reasons are based on real terrorism/terrorists I have encountered in Israel.

Whatever it was (you can call it terrorism), it was only the "excuse". This was not an attack. This was a prelude....it was very clear.....all you had to do is follow the bred crumb trail.....terror alerts....etc.

It's all crap, there is no way for us or anyone for that matter being able to defend ourselves from terrorism without surrendering ALL and I mean ALL our freedoms.

Israel has the best defense in the world, they have to, they are in the heart of things.....and terror acts happening there on weekly basis. I have seen them with my own eyes. There are no "threat" .... just attacks, with responsibility taken AFTER that.

What we had here is US was scare tactic politics, within the democracy it is not an easy thing to do...you know....freedom and all. So that was one way to justify doing certain things.

I lived in Soviet Union as well, they had a different way of same scare tactics....a bit bolder....there was no democracy barrier...but essentially the same.

Guys, there is NOTHING new happening in the world. All that is happening was and will be happening for hundreds of years. There always will be conspiracies, theories, power struggle...etc...Internet and video is what fuels it now, before it was harder to fuel.....but we were lied to for hundreds of years.

The only thing I am happy is that the attempt of scare politics in democracy essentially failed. That means that there is still a chance of us remaining relatively free people. But hold on.....the real change in that might come from different place all together, not the war and politics, but rather Pharmaceutical. The easiest way to control the population, scare them is when a tactic is used that has no one to blame. When a virus breaks out, you will not have Muslims to blame. You will want to live so you will comply with a new order, designed to contain the virus......but that is another movie all together.

I hear you Al - wise words and on the whole I agree with much of what you say. I guess I'm hearing essentially that 'we were lied to - whats new?' - would that be about right?

I'm as world-weary a person as i've met in the flesh myself - yet even still - for this to be carried out on such as scale, in the United States of America - no other country bangs on about Freedom and Truth and Democracy in quite the same way - for this to happen and be allowed to essentially go unanswered? Don't know man - proper apathy and despondence doesn't happen overnight - it happens one little death at a time - until something like this can happen and then, through media and government collaboration, be swept right under the carpet (the main events), whilst being used as a premise for war-crimes and the rest.

I don't say I'm not cynical - I don't say 'revolution!!!!!' - I'm merely saying 'Are we, as western democratic people, satisfied with this'?

Are we?

[Cro Morgan]

Barry Jennings was trapped inside WTC7 on 9/11. When interviewed (on film), he said he heard repeated explosions inside the building before either Tower 1 or Tower 2 collapsed - and testified that he was "stepping over dead bodies" while exiting the ‘blown-out’ lobby to WTC7.

Funny enough, he turned up dead not long after the interview (age 53). His death has never been explained. Oh, and he died only days before the release of NIST’s official report on WTC7.

http://www.infowars.com/key-witness-to- ... ead-at-53/

[coke4]

Barry Jennings was trapped inside WTC7 on 9/11. When interviewed (on film), he said he heard repeated explosions inside the building before either Tower 1 or Tower 2 collapsed - and testified that he was "stepping over dead bodies" while exiting the ‘blown-out’ lobby to WTC7.

Funny enough, he turned up dead not long after the interview (age 53). His death has never been explained. Oh, and he died only days before the release of NIST’s official report on WTC7.

http://www.infowars.com/key-witness-to- ... ead-at-53/

The explosions/ dead bodies arent that big of a deal, If the building was on fire, there were bound to be explosions and dead bodies.
Him turning dead is very suspect, that being said he looks quite big

[beltic caldy]

You've lost me Coke.

WTC7 couldn't have fallen the way it did from fire alone. Fact.

Re your other points - i'm confused - buildings are demolished every year with explosives alone? Please clarify your point on this.

Re the 2 towers - structural steel melting point could not have been reached by high-octane fuel alone - and even if it could - even if the 'above structure' was badly compromised, the collapse that followed accelerated downwards - it picked up speed. Surely, you would imagine it should slow down, no? As the collapse-mass encounters each new structurually safe floor, it should slow down, with the 'effort' to crash through. That doesn't happen - explanation please?

You need to go and study this more thoroughly sir - as i said, reject hypotheses if you will, but spurious rejections such as there constitute nothing more than insult to physics, history and the truth.

[coke4]

You've lost me Coke.

WTC7 couldn't have fallen the way it did from fire alone. Fact.

Re your other points - i'm confused - buildings are demolished every year with explosives alone? Please clarify your point on this.

Re the 2 towers - structural steel melting point could not have been reached by high-octane fuel alone - and even if it could - even if the 'above structure' was badly compromised, the collapse that followed accelerated downwards - it picked up speed. Surely, you would imagine it should slow down, no? As the collapse-mass encounters each new structurually safe floor, it should slow down, with the 'effort' to crash through. That doesn't happen - explanation please?

You need to go and study this more thoroughly sir - as i said, reject hypotheses if you will, but spurious rejections such as there constitute nothing more than insult to physics, history and the truth.

Im not really talking about WTC7, as i said before im not saying this is/ is not a government conspiracy, which is what we are getting into with WTC7, im talking about planes taking down buildings, however it is possible a design flaw could come into play, but as I said before, im not talking about that.

Yea i have just read the explosion thing and seen how you have seen it, not very clear sorry Ill try to rephrase, again
Yes, explosions take down buildings, but explosions are not the only thing that can take down a building. Hope i have finally made sense here

No it would have melted, but through the pure force of the plane and the heat would have weakened the structure.
Your physics is also somewhat flawed as you seem to be forgetting velocity.
The law of momentum states that momentum is equal to mass by velocity, there for the building would only have to be collapsing at around 5 mph to continue going down through the building

[Saarbrigga]

When I was about to enter the building - the first plain hit.

What would happen if you had enter the building 15 mins before?

@ beltic

thanks for the link, but i already knew it.

I watched many documentarys about the event, but i can t make a final conclusion.

There are things which don t add up, but otherwise many conspiracy theories are bullshit!

Did you ever seen the Loose Change crew Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas on "Hardfire"?
They had a talk with some 911 debunker named Mark Roberts. He produced the movie "Screw Loose Change" and proved almost anything of Loose Change is 2nd hand information.

If you have time to watch it, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7tMHMQ8 ... re=related

[djarvik]

When I was about to enter the building - the first plain hit.

What would happen if you had enter the building 15 mins before?

I wouldn't be alive.

[Saarbrigga]

That s stunning...

Did you worked in the North or South Tower?

The North Tower was hit around 98th floor, the South Tower 78th.


It s a little bit off topic: But do you are a practioneer of Krav Maga?