Public Preview Version of ITST 1.16

[VMoe86]

Disclaimer

The following version of ITST Mod is NOT intended to be used in official matches. It does not contain the full roster and CRC Numbers are wrong. Any sign -- be it in a PM or on TE Chat -- that a player asks another player to use this version for official matches or that it is being used for official matches will have as consequence suspensions for the players involved and no more public preview versions in the future.

What is this?

ITST Mod 1.14/1.15 has been released right before Roland Garros (ITST Mod 1.15 only fixed a bug regarding Federer's serve animation). It has been well received in general (gameplay and balance), but still leaves some things to be addressed.

With ITST Mod 1.16 we want to reduce Speed to around 70 and also have Run Acceleration around this mark. In ITST 1.14/1.15 the net play with characters having 70 Run Acceleration was received better, so we go more in this direction. More powerful wings, Precisions improved to have quicker charge time and also better serve stats to have a bit more free points on serve. In general an attempt to get the Rally Length a bit more down and make it easier for players to hold serve. This is also highlighted by the fact that we turn Power Baseliners into Punchers.

Several new animations (Lucian's animations for example) have been added as well as some new 2d courts.

There are currently only 19 characters in this Preview Version and the stats are not final, but you can try out the direction we want to take and give your impressions here.

Download Link

ITST Mod 1.16 Preview Version (Requires ITST Mod 1.15)

Installing Preview Version

The ITST 1.16 Preview Version -- or rather ITST Mod 1.15c -- requires an installation of ITST Mod 1.15.

The easiest way to get a separate ITST 1.16 Preview Version is as follows:

• Duplicate your current folder in which TE and ITST Mod 1.15 are installed (call this folder "ITST Mod Test Version" or something like that).
  
• Copy the content of the archive above into the folder "ITST Mod Test Version".
  
• Launch the game installed in "ITST Mod Test Version" and create a new Profile with the name "ITST2".
  
• Close the game, relaunch, load the characters and have fun!

[Elias]

I'll probably post an updated ITST2 profile in this thread in some time, with few stat changes to fine tune the balance (some heavy hitters for instance could be slower).

note : new 2D courts are not included in this little test version, to keep it light, it's mainly intended to test the gameplay.

sidenote : 1.15 top run acceleration was 66. Here it's 70, to give more responsivness to the netplay (jump), though, +4% run accel also noticeably increases baseline movement potential/responsiveness thus the need for a much lower max speed to balance it as much as possible.

[pidzi]

i already tested it and have to agree with you Elias that hardhitters like berdych tsonga and inser, with all of them i felt almost as quick as with the rest of roster so i think you should lower especially their tonicity and not only slightly but like or 6 points or if not then 3 speed and 3 tonicity or maybe even this issue has to be tested properly and carefully before releasing full version its just too obvious that hardhitters are above all now

[Elias]

i already tested it and have to agree with you Elias that hardhitters like berdych tsonga and inser, with all of them i felt almost as quick as with the rest of roster so i think you should lower especially their tonicity and not only slightly but like or 6 points or if not then 3 speed and 3 tonicity

Will tell you, more AI testing in the process currently before updating the profile. For now it seems i pinpointed a better balance for Berdych with 61 speed, 73 tonicity (thus 67 run accel), and then 85 stam (power+24) + lowering his BH consistency @78. Need a bit more testing to be confirmed though, maybe we'll lower on run accel. Then Delpo will probably go for the same. Aslo Tsonga @ 63/73/87. Isner will go a bit lower than Berd/Delpo as usual.

[pidzi]

i think you should consider to lower tonicity more than speed , i felt that i could reach balls because of higher accel than max speed but who knows

[Elias]

i think you should consider to lower tonicity more than speed , i felt that i could reach balls because of higher accel than max speed but who knows

What matters about acceleration is run accel, thus not tonicity only but (max speed + tonicity) / 2.
Globally lowering run accel has more impact on the global baseline reach, indeed. But lowering it too much also impairs net abilities (jump), so here we don't really want going too far, but i think we can go as low as 66 run acceleration for 1.16, maybe a little lower but not too much. 66 run acceleration was i think our highest on 1.15 (and the heavy guys had around 58 then). By the way the really heavy hitters will probably be the ones to stay as PB's (Delpo, Berdych, maybe Gulbis, not sure).

[pidzi]

well yes lowering run accel for hardhitter to 66 could indeed solve this issue i think, because as it is now it doesnt really feels like moving on the court is their main weakness and it should be instead

[C4iLL]

So I played 4-5 sets with Isaldor tonight, a few feedbacks. Globally I appreciate the update, we feel the exchanges are more powerful, maybe more sophisticated and the change in the way to run is interesting and cool.
I also really appreciate the fact that the classic acceleration are deeper than before and the short acceleration can be extremely short.

- Tsonga is too fast in comparaison to gasquet etc. His power is good (personally I would even give this default power to every characters in the roster ) but his service is perhaps too efficient. I served only Acceleration, I only made 3 double faults in one set, 2 of them at 5-4 in the last game. Maybe it's the variance, so it's clearly not a definitive judgement.
- Gasquet is wonderful to play with : elegant animations, efficient shots from both side, a great work.
- Fed, I'm currently not sure yet about his new FH, perhaps it's a question of time, but I had a bit less pleasure playing with him than with Gasquet. His BH has an interesting boost anyway
- Nadal, hard character to manage but a big potential in good hands. His short accel FH is a nuclear weapon
- Net play : from what I saw, I didn't feel a big change but I didn't have occasion to investigate. I will compare with the old versions to provide a more precise feedback.

One cosmetic thing I really dislike is the font used for the menus, stats, board for the service speed, in my opinion, it is totally ugly. Don't understand why it's not the classic one as it was really far more beautiful in my opinion. I know it's subjective, some people may like it (Isaldor told me he liked it), so if you can just tell how to customize this for the final release, it's cool

[Elias]

- Tsonga is too fast in comparaison to gasquet etc. His power is good (personally I would even give this default power to every characters in the roster ) but his service is perhaps too efficient. I served only Acceleration, I only made 3 double faults in one set, 2 of them at 5-4 in the last game. Maybe it's the variance, so it's clearly not a definitive judgement.

Yep. I figured after packing this that we'd have to go lower on speed (well.. speed/tonicity combo), for the heavy characters, probably more than i thought and discussed above. Still in the process looking for the right values (if you want to dig it on your side, feel free, it can help of course, but if you try values, do it preferably in online match-ups, mirroring the match, with the same sparring partner (your level or close to).

About the serves. Well, yes, that will be a tricky one. As you can see, we're going to power = consistency for most chars having serve power <= 80. Wich means a higher first % and also globally higher av. first serve speed. Though, obviously i couldn't decently do this for the high power servers, cause it would be probably too much. So .. in this version Tsonga has -6 (consistency<>power), Berd -5, Isner (-4) (oh my , is it serious ? ). Isner is the exception who serves consistenly high first % in reality among power servers, not sure he should be the exception in ITST mod though, for balance reasons .. we'll see depending his definitive movement / baseline abilities.

Not sure wich power <> consistency gap should be decided for power servers. consistency < power should enforce a first % lower than 70%. In theory consistency = power leads to a 70% average b1+b2 serves in, and 80% b1 serves in, and considering that power servers b1 serves can still be pretty dangerous, there is a serious question behind the value we should allow, their serve has to stay an asset in their game, not too much random (Tsonga had -15 in 1.15 i think), but not too much devastating / unbalancing the game either.

- Gasquet is wonderful to play with : elegant animations, efficient shots from both side, a great work.
- Fed, I'm currently not sure yet about his new FH, perhaps it's a question of time, but I had a bit less pleasure playing with him than with Gasquet. His BH has an interesting boost anyway

In my opinion Gasquet is maybe the most brillant creation from Lucian

About Fed. For a long time thru several versions of the mod, i kept Manac0r Federer FH (it's still selectable if you want to compare). I've been asked several times "why don't you use Lucian Fed FH !!", etc etc. I kept manac0r one for so long because i always felt this anim brought something gameplay wise, for some reason, it has this little umpff, like the swing executes a bit faster and your shots are fast and crushy. At start i thought it was just a visual feeling, but i definitely think it's more than a feeling. Though the difference is not a huge one.

Now, cosmetically, Lucian anim, especially the last one, has a superior finish in details and polish, fits better Fed, motion is less jumpy. And, as we all know that Fed is a bit on the decline, i thought it was maybe time to accept this change
Now if you all want to keep Manac0r FH binded to Fed, i have absolutely nothing against it

- Nadal, hard character to manage but a big potential in good hands. His short accel FH is a nuclear weapon

Yep, still unsure about balance, but all AI results seems pretty good, though AI has less trouble with incoming spin compared to humans. Like you say it feels like a very good char but not that easy to master due to the anims.

- Net play : from what I saw, I didn't feel a big change but I didn't have occasion to investigate. I will compare with the old versions to provide a more precise feedback.

The thing is, you'll not rush/reach the net as fast as it was possible when we had like 80+ run accel in 1.08 (along with 1.0e even though vertical inertia was heavyer). But What you may notice i think is the jump responsiveness / length, when you are in situation at the net, or even the jump triggering better when approaching the net in the serve landing zone area. Due to 70 run accel instead of 66 (for Djokovic for instance), and also to slightly higher net presence stats, coupled with Puncher style. Reaching the net in good conditions will still be a challenge i guess, though.

One cosmetic thing I really dislike is the font used for the menus, stats, board for the service speed, in my opinion, it is totally ugly. Don't understand why it's not the classic one as it was really far more beautiful in my opinion. I know it's subjective, some people may like it (Isaldor told me he liked it), so if you can just tell how to customize this for the final release, it's cool

Ah, lot's of people likes it It's from rogerfed1 who tried to reproduce some ATP font i think.
It won't be difficult to remove, no worries.

[C4iLL]

Okay so a little update after little tests :

- The net is indeed clearly better than on 1.15, you can moove more at the net, a bit like in the past. With the increase of the precision stats however, I think it would not be irrealistic to go for an overall increase of the "net presence" stat, perhaps for something like 5 points for everyone. I tried this a bit with fed and it was not unbalanced but I let you try

- The speed : concretly, I played first with Fed, after with Nadal, after Gasquet and at the end Tsonga.

When I played with Tsonga, Isaldor directly stopped and noticed he was faster than Nadal. On my side, I directly perceived that he was a bit faster than Gasquet and after thinking about what Isaldor said, I also had the feeling he was really less heavy than Nadal.

So I checked a bit the stats to find something and I discovered that Tsonga has 72 in tonicity, Gasquet 71, Nadal 67,5, which confirmed all our feelings.

Despite the fact Tsonga has thus a "speed stat"' far less good (8 points less than Nadal for instance), in game, he's somehow faster than them : it gives you the feeling he's less heavy. With speed around 70, it seems the speed stats has almost no impact at all then.

[Elias]

- The speed : concretly, I played first with Fed, after with Nadal, after Gasquet and at the end Tsonga.

When I played with Tsonga, Isaldor directly stopped and noticed he was faster than Nadal. On my side, I directly perceived that he was a bit faster than Gasquet and after thinking about what Isaldor said, I also had the feeling he was really less heavy than Nadal.

So I checked a bit the stats to find something and I discovered that Tsonga has 72 in tonicity, Gasquet 71, Nadal 67,5, which confirmed all our feelings.

Despite the fact Tsonga has thus a "speed stat"' far less good (8 points less than Nadal for instance), in game, he's somehow faster than them : it gives you the feeling he's less heavy. With speed around 70, it seems the speed stats has almost no impact at all then.

Well, no Tsonga is not faster than these chars it's not working like this, higher tonicity doesn't means accelerates faster. You had probably that feeling because he's probably too fast regarding the power he delivers.

Let's redo the maths, the tonicity shouldn't be seen as a raw stat, it's only a component.

So, what counts for each character movement, is, max speed, and run acceleration (wich dictates reaction time, and the time needed to reach max speed, the higher the run accel, the faster you reach your max speed).
With Run acceleration = (max speed + tonicity) / 2.

Nadal :

Speed : 72.5
Tonicity : 67.5
Run acceleration : (72.5+67.5) / 2 = 70

Gasquet :

Speed : 69
Tonicity : 71
Run Acceleration : (71+69) / 2 = 70

Federer :

Speed : 67
Tonicity : 73
Run Acceleration : (67+73) / 2 = 70

Tsonga :

Speed : 64
Tonicity : 72
Run acceleration : (64+72) / 2 = 69

So Tsonga is definitely slower. Slightly lower run acceleration, to reach a lower max speed. But as you noticed, the run acceleration has a major influence.

Thus he probably needs to be slower than that, being max speed and/or acceleration, keeping in mind that lowering run acceleration also lowers the net jump responsiveness (maybe 64-66 for Tsonga group, 62-63 for Berd etc, but depending their netplay then i may have to switch some of them as puncher as well to maintain a decent net jump), coupled with a limited max speed. => To be investigated still. It's especially tricky for characters like Raonic, wich you want to limit the baseline movement abilities, but maintain a very good netplay, and lowering 10% run acceleration kills the net jump responsiveness and doesn't feel really compensated by a +10% net presence for instance, that's the dilemma.

About the increased precision, yes it allows to hit quicker with less preparation, better passings, at least from the good wing. Now we have already the puncher style and some increases in run accel, net presence, so let's see how it balances.

[pidzi]

I think the problem is that tsonga, isner and other hardhitters shouldnt have such high run accel, only 1 less than gasquet and fed who are supposed to have better movement. And i agree with C4 and isaldor that playing berdych i really didnt felt heavy it was due to fact that when i was waiting for the incoming ball i still could reach many difficult balls because of high run accel. I am not telling that they are as fast as djoko or nadal but they have almost the very same reaction time because of almost same run accel stat. THis has to be changed for heavy chars like mentioned above to preserve their main weakness - movement.

[Elias]

Agree it doesn't feel realistic, they're not heavy enough. So this roster will be re-done with a scaling of run acceleration thru the roster range, keeping a closer run accel among the fast/average speed characters than it was before in 1.15. But also creating enough run accel gap with heavyer categories. For now i'm re-doing more testing (damn i lack my home PC...), getting rid of the serve factor, focusing on this aspect.

You can still continue to test gameplay / match-ups with faster chars wich should be pretty well balanced, djoker, dimitrov, baggie, nishikori, ferrer etc, on different surfaces. I'm also interested to hear your opinion C4iLL (and others), as we talked about this before, about how renders our Blue/Green surface now with such setup. Cause i'm not against lowering slightly the bounce, but i'm not sure it will be felt as needed now. Our BG still allows for some shoulder height shots from time to time (against spinners), wich is not bad either in some way imo, this surface brings various tactics possibilities, lowering the bounce will probably make it closer to indoor gameplay, not the best of both worlds, as it is intended to be right now.

[Lucian86]

In my opinion Gasquet is maybe the most brillant creation from Lucian

Thanks..indeed, it's fun to play Gasquet with my new animations.
Great stuff! Glad you didn't put the running animation that Sam inserted in his patch; people use it and I don't why..it's awful to see. Same about "rogfed1's" new player model.

By the way:
- How come you didn't put Murray's new forehand, backhand and slice ?
- Why don't you put as well the "wait and idle" animations that I personalized for every player. The default one is not looking so great imo and the ones I made besides having players signature, they smootly run with their stroke animations.

[Elias]

- How come you didn't put Murray's new forehand, backhand and slice ?
- Why don't you put as well the "wait and idle" animations that I personalized for every player. The default one is not looking so great imo and the ones I made besides having players signature, they smootly run with their stroke animations.

Hmm Murray anims i thought i integrated them .. maybe a mistake or just not binded to the char ? i will check.
I mean i think i replaced 1.15 Murray v2 FH, by your Murray V3 (last pack), but didn't changed the version name, just overwriting the anims in place, will re-check it, but i think these are the new ones from your Murray pack.
Right, about wait/idle, i'll probably add them. I'm often reluctant with idle anims cause with custom ones i could see very often the characters "bouncing" left/right so much faster compared to default ones that the chars felt not idle but more on steroids wich looks a bit unreal. Not sure it was yours though, but then remembering this i somewhat avoided it straight away

About stretched aliens running weirdly i'm not fan either, i definitely won't use this

[edit]
checked about Murray anims, they are present and selectable in this preview. I just forgot to bind them or didn"t saved the char when i did, probably.
for info : serv n°40, FH n°39, BH n°21, slice n°18, return stance n°33
[/edit]