Balanced roster / test.

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Balanced roster / test.

Postby Elias » Mon, 25 Jun 2012 14:56

Ok. So here is a roster with several changes, aiming for a better gameplay balance, regarding the recent movement scheme change, and also aiming to decrease too much important gaps between character/tiers.

The main changes are about speed, serves, and power, plus some few individual changes.

speed

At first as pointed by Djarvik i started trying to change char speeds individually but progressivelly draw the conslusion that the new speeds i was setting up, were more or less a simple range scaling like i intended to try from the start. I did some online match up tests, especially using the extremes slow vs. fast chars, like Monfils/Raonic, etc. And those tests corroborated the fact the match ups were more balanced and pleasant with a speed range in between 70-92 instead of the current 59-96.

So i finally used a math linear normalization and reduced the range, from 70 to 92. with some individual slight manual changes, like Simon, wich still should be aroud 90% after norm, but i fixed him to 85% trying out to balance him as a counter.

Still those online speed tests took place before the recent inertia movement changes, therefore this has to be tested a bit more with the current build and movement.

power

Here no way i could use any linear / norm function due to game mechanics and the way the spin values impairs ball speed. So i changed all power values individually, testing the chars and using the ball speed radar, rallying a bit with each char, trying to preserve a decent shot speed/winner ability for each char. In a general way the power loss is larger when the char has a lower spin, and fewer when a high spin, some chars even gained some power due to high spin.

What counts really is the shot efficiency rendered by the power/spin couple values, so please try the chars and shots efficiency , avoid comparing raw power values.

About the heavy spinners i had the choice to decrease considerably the spin, but i choosed to decrease it only a bit, to keep a better trajectory feel and realism. therefore increasing the power,so they mostly now have a higher power value than most chars, but their shot efficiency is just on par with others or a bit lower in term of speed, considering that heavy top spinners have some advantage creating short crosses.

The heavyweight class, del potro, gulbis, berdych, etc, mainly most of the guys under 80% speed generally kept more powerful strokes, and considering the reduced speed gap they should be pretty good contenders now.

Again this needs to be digged more and thorougly tested and your feedback will allow to fine tune this and tune again power and/or speed if needed.

serves

You probably saw all our sharing about serves on the forum, max speeds, consistency etc. So here is the deal, these are pretty considerable stats changes, to reach as much as possible realistic end match stats, speeds and first serves %. No char out there has anymore a consistency > power, avoiding first serves % higher than 70% using b1+b2 in most cases. the power is decreased to target the average max speed i could find for each player using grand slam websites statistics, not aiming for the fastest speed a player reaches one time a year or in a career.

Some special cases :

* Simon
as a counter style char felt pretty overpowered / on par with tier1, so, instead of 90 speed after normalization, i fixed him to 85%. I also lowered his power considerably, and increased a bit his top spin (10 to 15%). He now has the lower power values in the roster, (from 7% only though), still has decent shots due to low spin, but those accels shots are not enough by themselves to create winners consistently. Simon will need to use the opponent ball speed to create his own speed, more than before. In this intent i also increased his Counter stat from 87 to 95.

* Murray
Well. Murray if we want him to take place as a tier 1 needs some decent power, nothing exceptional but i couldnt let him with too low values due to a pretty high spin, cause i really couldn't felt possible to compete decently vs Federer, Djokovic. So he kept his previous power, and even got a bit more, just a bit behind Djokovic. Still keeping a bit more spin (i reduced a bit Djokovic and Murray spin respectively to 47 and 49, mainly to fine tune ball speed with their power values).
It's a proposition. I couldn't feel doing less than this to balance him as a Tier1 char. I think it feels pretty nice to play him and nothing exagerrated with those values.

* Nadal
i had mainly the choice to keep his previous power values, lowering the spin to 75 or 80% to reach some decent ball speed. But visually in my opinion it wasn't feeling that great regarding Nadal, spin wise. So i decided to decrease the spin from 99% to 90% only. Then increasing considerably his wings power. At the moment with 92/88 power, his shots are still slower than the other tier1 chars and even slower than some other chars with around 70-75% power and low spin values. Though he has the advantage of spin, and still a decent ball speed, not a ridiculous one anymore. Nadal tier1 balance should be tested further now.

*Tomic
Well this char was pretty useless not being a specialist in any way, just decent shots but low speed and stamina, so i really wasn't sure what to do with him to make him more desirable to play, or to drop him. I just gave him a decent average speed in the roster (80 still in the lower end just on the top of the heavyer chars), and some stamina boost. In my opinion he's more viable like this, but there is still better chars around..

*llodra has now a better backhand than forehand (switched power values), and also raised his backhand consistency to from 49 to 66.

*Soderling got 76 speed instead of 75, mainly coz' he still have to be an alternative to Del Potro wich has a 76 speed. not a big change, but just felt right in regard to keep some interest in this char.

* Gulbis, after normalization reached 80 speed, i dropped him from 80 speed to 79. not a big change, but just as a principle i just feel right to keep the heavy hitters under the 80 speed mark. He's very powerful among the roster due to the low spin so i have to maintain him in a reasonable speed range like Tsonga, Soder etc.

As a last note, Federer still has one of the best forehand in the roster, except some heavy chars. But still not some "i win" button.

After all, what we aim to is to see the macthes won by players ability to control their character as well as possible, not because they use an overpowered char, right ;)

*********

Well, as a final note, i was pretty busy last weeks so i couldn't finish before, but still this tooks me a looot of testing time, really, so please be kind with your comments and please take the time to test several match-ups, preferably online (mainly because the power can feel a bit frustrating offline due to the CPU high ball recovery/reflexes skills, humans get wrongfooted a lot more), and on different surfaces.
Overall with this set up one should have to work out the point much more.

Feel free to post screen stats and comments.

I've seen the wimbledon draw has been released, i wish the tournament can be put in a break right now to test this roster before starting, this way if this new balance is welcomed then i will release a more official 1.07 ITST mod version.

For reference info :

Serve Power/Cons stats and max/average serve speed values :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... U1SZHgwYnc

Roster overall stats :

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... 0pJUjR0aEE

(i didn't filled the #CRC numbers yet)

Roster Profile download :

It is just the ITST profile folder, to test it, just replace your current ITST profile in your TE folder, (make a copy of your current profile before).

http://depositfiles.com/files/03a4dq2yy
http://www.mediafire.com/?hfa76he0u5em3ag
http://bayfiles.com/file/eweP/P3SVHy/IT ... er1.07.rar
Last edited by Elias on Tue, 26 Jun 2012 00:53, edited 14 times in total.
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Postby C4iLL » Mon, 25 Jun 2012 15:09

Thank you for your huge work, I've the feeling this goes in the good direction !

I've just noticed one thing in the Wimbledon draw : for 20 players, 11 select Federer, 3 djokovic, 0 nadal, 1 Murray... Somethig had to be done ^^
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Postby Ugadalou » Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:48

Thanks for all your work elias and all the other testers!

Is the roster official then?Do we use this on matches?
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Re: Balanced roster / test.

Postby VMoe86 » Mon, 25 Jun 2012 20:49

Elias wrote:* Murray
Well. Murray if we want him to take place as a tier 1 needs some decent power, nothing exceptional but i couldnt let him with too low values due to a pretty high spin, cause i really couldn't felt possible to compete decently vs Federer, Djokovic. So he kept his previous power, and even got a bit more, just a bit behind Djokovic. Still keeping a bit more spin (i reduced a bit Djokovic and Murray spin respectively to 47 and 49, mainly to fine tune ball speed with their power values).
It's a proposition. I couldn't feel doing less than this to balance him as a Tier1 char. I think it feels pretty nice to play him and nothing exagerrated with those values.

I'll take a special look at this one, because I played quite a bit with Murray offline against Federer in the past few days. ;)

Also thanks for the work, hopefully I'll be able to test it all properly because I'll be quite busy this and next week.

By the way, I am still convinced that no stats should be higher than 90%, but that is not as urgent as the other things.

C4iLL wrote:I've just noticed one thing in the Wimbledon draw : for 20 players, 11 select Federer, 3 djokovic, 0 nadal, 1 Murray... Somethig had to be done ^^

I hope this new roster will be used in the second week of Wimbledon. :P

Ugadalou wrote:Is the roster official then?Do we use this on matches?

No, it needs some testing.
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Postby eliomelma » Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:13

how can i install it, you have replaced old prfile but i don't have any player!
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Postby Elias » Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:25

eliomelma wrote:how can i install it, you have replaced old prfile but i don't have any player!


Just replace the ITST folder in your current TE/ITST mod install . all the players are in it (p_0.ini to p_Z.ini you can check the files).
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Postby Elias » Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:34

Well, i posted this 8 days ago though i can't see many report / feedback besides some positive ones in wimbledon thread.

Should i finalize tweaks and realease 1.07 now or does it need more testing time for you guys ? did you tested some other match-ups apart tour matches ?
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Postby djarvik » Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:40

I think you should. Obviously there are no glaring problems. If we find some along the way - we will address them. :)
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Postby VMoe86 » Mon, 02 Jul 2012 23:43

I've unfortunately only had time to play it offline (and only two match-ups, Gulbis vs. Federer and Murray vs. Federer I tried); simply too much to do and thus lacking time for more.

Finally a good mix between short, medium and long rallies, Gulbis not that slow anymore and Federer still is very good and close to its real counterpart. No more ridiculous 137mph serves from Federer. :lol:

@djarvik: So, this roster will be used then for Wimbledon from now on? Good news! 8)
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Postby L Sanchez MD » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 00:41

"Gulbis not that slow anymore"

Patch musn't be very accurate ;)
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Postby eliomelma » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:17

Go with new stats!
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Look my New video of Tennis
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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11dynn_itst-tennis-elbow-2013-roland-garros-promo-video_sport#.Uc9Q-PmSLtk&hd=1
Tennis Elbow Clay season 2013 Finals: http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1056&t=17732&p=243729#p243729
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Postby eliomelma » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 09:30

Elias wrote:Well, i posted this 8 days ago though i can't see many report / feedback besides some positive ones in wimbledon thread.

Should i finalize tweaks and realease 1.07 now or does it need more testing time for you guys ? did you tested some other match-ups apart tour matches ?


Few comments because many have holidays in this days
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Roland Garros 2013:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11dynn_itst-tennis-elbow-2013-roland-garros-promo-video_sport#.Uc9Q-PmSLtk&hd=1
Tennis Elbow Clay season 2013 Finals: http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1056&t=17732&p=243729#p243729
Roland Garros QF Vmoe vs Richie 6-7 6-7 6-7 If look this video you won't play anymore another tennis game...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBnWyI380P0&hd=1
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Postby Ugadalou » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 10:59

Also there are stats to prove that the balance in rallies is better as most of the last matches have been played with the new stats.

I played online matches playing with or against Fish,Dolgo,Fed,Delpo and Llodra and I can't say I would change something.
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Postby SlicerITST » Tue, 03 Jul 2012 12:05

Elias wrote:Well, i posted this 8 days ago though i can't see many report / feedback besides some positive ones in wimbledon thread.

Should i finalize tweaks and realease 1.07 now or does it need more testing time for you guys ? did you tested some other match-ups apart tour matches ?


Lets do it. I dont think anyone will mind if we change to the new roster.
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Postby eliomelma » Wed, 04 Jul 2012 20:00

I think that you should as soon as make official 1.07 patch because we are playing Wimbledon that is the more important tournament and it needs to be playable
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Look my New video of Tennis
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http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11dynn_itst-tennis-elbow-2013-roland-garros-promo-video_sport#.Uc9Q-PmSLtk&hd=1
Tennis Elbow Clay season 2013 Finals: http://www.intertopspintour.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1056&t=17732&p=243729#p243729
Roland Garros QF Vmoe vs Richie 6-7 6-7 6-7 If look this video you won't play anymore another tennis game...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBnWyI380P0&hd=1
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