fair play

[kopfnicker]

hello. i'm kopfnicker from germany (hope my english will be understanding).
i began playing tennis middle 2013 with TS4 and i like it.
after playing and playing and level up my skill.
now i registered here to see what i can do against other player on high level.
i have read the rules and some forum post about what is allowed and what not.
i read things about cheesy tactics or shots (drop shots for example).
i played lots of matches against players who used this stuff in 2KOpen or WT. (defense drop shots while he was running)
the first times the oponents surprised me with this shot. but from time to time and training i found the right tactics to defend this and make points.
the big question for me is (and that's the reason for this forum topic): why are playing styles like these forbidden?
i mean for every tactic or shot there exist an answer. some are hard to return, some easy. for some you need train and knowledge. it's like in real tennis. where is the problem?

[chris_high]

That is a pretty rare question! most of players here would like to see some more cheesy shots banned (r1 shots/serves without going to the net, only short crossed shots, volley dropshot every time...etc)
To answer your question: "why are playing styles like these forbidden?", from my point of view there are 2 diferent answers:
First one is that most players here want to play a fair and realistic tennis. So it becomes completly ridiculous to play an ultra efficient dropshot every point with a "dropshot artist" skill, or to make only approach shots without going to the net just to have a more efficient shot. It doesn't looks like real tennis, no players ever played like this IRL. It is no fun when you play a "realistic" game like TS4.
Second reason is that versus **** and cheesy players on WT or 2K, I agree with you it is easy to counter a cheesy tactic because they use always the same tactic (really predictible) and don't really master these shots anyway. But it is a complete diferent story versus the top players here! If you allow Hassan or Burna to play cheesy shots, you won't won a single point man... They will be smart enough to use it only at the good moment (not like WT players..)! One good exemple is the slice wide serve from tramlines and then flat power shot on the other side. If you allow tramlines serves and/or crazy serve trainer, almost every exchange will last 2 shots...no fun.

Same explanation for the rules about trainers and stats. For exemple if you allow top players to use 90/90 welch or 98/98 babb, the game will become unplayable. Only aces or two shots points for the Babb players, and only crazy short crossed shots and crazy drophots for Welch players...no fun.

Last thing, I agree with you that when there is real diference of level between two players, it is possible for the best one to counter the cheesy tactic or the cheesy trainer of the worst one. But when you arrive at a really good level, the difference between players are much smaller, and you can't compensate the cheesy tactics.

i think you will understand what I mean after some games here
or you can also just ask a training game with a top player here and ask him to use cheesy shots and/or cheesy trainer...it will be painful but useful

Welcome here anyway, good to see new players

[kopfnicker]

thanks for your welcome and your point of view.

i agree with you. wt players who use extreme abilities like 98/98 babb and are serves-monster (it's easy with those high abilities and not the art of highskill). in my opinion they are lamer and game destroyer.

i mean the players with ITST rules. i think that's fair.
if you are prepared than you can return every "cheesy" shot.

One good exemple is the slice wide serve from tramlines and then flat power shot on the other side. If you allow tramlines serves and/or crazy serve trainer, almost every exchange will last 2 shots...no fun.

can't follow you. a return with a flat power shot is mostly not effective. only you have the agassi skill (return wonder).

do you play TS4 on PS3?

[Painted Crystal]

thanks for your welcome and your point of view.

i agree with you. wt players who use extreme abilities like 98/98 babb and are serves-monster (it's easy with those high abilities and not the art of highskill). in my opinion they are lamer and game destroyer.

i mean the players with ITST rules. i think that's fair.
if you are prepared than you can return every "cheesy" shot.

One good exemple is the slice wide serve from tramlines and then flat power shot on the other side. If you allow tramlines serves and/or crazy serve trainer, almost every exchange will last 2 shots...no fun.

can't follow you. a return with a flat power shot is mostly not effective. only you have the agassi skill (return wonder).

do you play TS4 on PS3?

You didn't understand
Flat pow shot in the other side is the shot you've to play after YOUR wide slice service

[kopfnicker]

thought he means the return of service with the flat power shot!
i was blue if i read it.
now it's meaningful.

[kopfnicker]

hey chris, you said

They will be smart enough to use it only at the good moment (not like WT players..)!

can you make an example for cheesy style ingame?

when i wrote this topic my focus was on ITST rules.
i think if the abilities are same or nearly same the "cheesy" tactics have another meaning.
in my opinion they exist no "cheesy" style.
for services you have time to prepare.
and for all the so-called "cheesy" ingame style you need skill (drop shots for example).
you don't hit a button and than "cheesy" works and you make the point.
if you are prepared in your mind with having experience in positioning and running i think you can return every ball.
when someone is smart and has a strong focus or a fast reaction to use a mistake of the oponent (bad position or running) than he earn to make that point.
same like if someone hit a perfect shot with highest speed. than he earn to win the point.
i think it's nearly 100% fair. (without cheesy bugs)
it's like in real tennis. if you have more skill than you make the point. (if you ignore luck)

@ chris: are you active playing ts4 on ps3? can we make a train match?

[Belonger]

in my opinion they exist no "cheesy" style.

Unfortunately, I think you're wrong, cheesy styles do exist !

If your opponent never center before serving and only serve crossed, then he'll be, after a few games, close to tramlines and will start to do unrealistic crossed serves which will open widely the court for second shot. Thsi is cheesy style and it's very frequent on WT.

If your opponent uses drop shots when he gets on trouble, he will do kind of shot you can not do IRL. But at TS4 you can, and it'll be chessy because unrealistic again, giving him time enough to come back in rally as he wouldn't have been able to do so if he used any other shot - excepted lobs, which are also cheesy when used as the other guy did not come to net.

If your opponent uses many power slice shots, especially with forehand, this is cheesy, because it's a shot you can't see in real tennis game.

0 power serve (serves mad with a single tap on button) is also a cheesy shot because it's kind of serve often impossible to return efficiently though it should be, but it's a game bug.

To resume, cheesy tactics are tactics that use game weaknesses to be more efficient, in spite of the fact that it implies unrealistic shots. Because, unfortunately, TS4 is a quite realistic game but with some gameplay big weaknesses.

[kopfnicker]

hey Belonger

Unfortunately, I think you're wrong, cheesy styles do exist !

If your opponent never center before serving and only serve crossed, then he'll be, after a few games, close to tramlines and will start to do unrealistic crossed serves which will open widely the court for second shot. Thsi is cheesy style and it's very frequent on WT.

if you quote me than please read all what i have written. not only one set.
this set is based on what i have written before. ---> it based on ITST player abilitys ---> when an ITST player fight's an ITST player!

If your opponent uses drop shots when he gets on trouble, he will do kind of shot you can not do IRL. But at TS4 you can, and it'll be chessy because unrealistic again, giving him time enough to come back in rally as he wouldn't have been able to do so if he used any other shot

that's right. these drop shots are unrealistic. but you can return this balls and make the point.
sometimes it's hard. if the way is to long for example. sometimes the oponent will make the point with it.
if you lost series points against these drop shot style it's your own fault i think.
it's winning by learning.
and by the way ... you need skill to do these drop shots!!! it's not an easy way to make points!
if you do these drop shots 1 or 2 times in a match ... i think it's realistic.
another question is: what is realistic in this game?
is it realistic when you move your player like the way in the game? (you can't move on every pixel. only make steps.)
is it realistic the way you can aim with this 8 directions on the crosshair?
is it realistic when you have rallys with 20, 30, 40 balls every play. (when both play high without "cheesy" style and make all right)

excepted lobs, which are also cheesy when used as the other guy did not come to net.

i know what you mean. i played lot's of matches against others who use this when they were in trouble.
he will come back to the rally.
but only when you are not prepared for this!
with train and experience you can make the point against these unrealistic shots!

If your opponent uses many power slice shots, especially with forehand, this is cheesy, because it's a shot you can't see in real tennis game.

in real tennis you don't see power slice shots? i don't think so.
slices are the most useless shots of the 3 main!
i totally disagree if you say that a slice (powered or targeted) is "cheesy".
you can't make targeted slices only but for the defense (when you are in trouble).
slices are most effectly when you do it with a powerful perfect hit.
but if you can't do it. we only see playing tennis from baseline with flat and top spin in your opinion?

0 power serve (serves mad with a single tap on button) is also a cheesy shot because it's kind of serve often impossible to return efficiently though it should be, but it's a game bug.

i know what you mean.
but why is this cheesy? because you don't make the point directly with an ace like it should be?
you can return this ball normal and go on playing ... or not?

[Belonger]

Man, there are rules here. They exist for 3 years or so. In my post, I only make reference to THESE ITST rules to describe and explain to you what is cheesy. You do not agree with them ? (as you've said about several situations I described, especially defensive drop shots) Then go back to WT.

[kopfnicker]

Man, there are rules here. They exist for 3 years or so. In my post, I only make reference to THESE ITST rules to describe and explain to you what is cheesy. You do not agree with them ? (as you've said about several situations I described, especially defensive drop shots) Then go back to WT.

is it so difficult to understand me? or to read what i say?
...
did i say that i don't agree with the ITST rules?
in another topic you say to me:

You're new here but you want you re-design rules on you on your own point of view. It doesn't make sense. Good bye.

i never said that!
i quote the rules. so how can you say that? *omg*

this is a forum!!!
i only want to find out and discuss ---> what is the problem with "cheesy tactics" ...

PS: i think you talked and played too much with ahmed-75000.
you are also lying like him too!!!

[markpillans71]

i've been playing TS4 for 5 years,never won a tournament!i always blamed 'cheesy' players in WT but discovered itst this year and decided to give it a try as it sounded like a fairer set up.played my first match and got destroyed!my opponent didn't use 'cheesy' shots....was simply too good.the moral of the story is:you can say certain shots are cheesy,ban drop shots or certain attributes but at the end of the day if you aint good enough then you won't win....simple.