Top Spin 4 - Player Balancing Updates

[venom400]

Don't get me started on a FH slices

The forehand slice IRL is almost non-existant in the ATP, the only time I see it is when someones under extreme pressure and it`s not a very accurate and most likely your in big trouble on the next ball.

Played a guy on WT who sliced alot crosscourt and it keeps you from getting much pace on your groundstrokes. Too effective and it ends up in too many long rallys.....Would be great if tuned in the future.

so true hah i use when i get to the ball late hah

There is so
Eyhing that has not been mentioned , for a slice to be powerfull and fast it needa to fees off the pace of the incomming ball , it is extremely hard to produce pace of a slice on a dead ball , the way you beat slicers in rl i you hit them slice or a dead low ball and they cannot produce pace , they usually just hit the ball into the groud lol , so altough dlice rallies do happen in real life the ball does not come back with any pace until someone bangs it

[Vieira151]

it shouldn't be possible hit power slices, just control or normal shot when you use slices.

Power slices should be kept. If they had side spin then you could reduce the speed, but since they don't, you should keep them. When i'm playing, I always use normal or control slices, but when I wish to chip and charge, and i usually use a power slice. It allows me to dig the ball in deep while I charge the net.

Yeah, slices should be tweaked. But don't get rid of power slices.

Its about taking power slices out of the game , its about making them less acurate and with a higher chance of going long , top spin is the only true consistant shot in tennis , flats are good for winners but also prone to errors , and slices mostly for defense , tp brin people closer to te net and to sometimes force errors

I'm saying they should be tweaked so they are less powerful and accurate. I just feel the power slice should be left in, because it can be used for a lower, more venomous slice which is less accurate(which I would use for chip'n'charge). A slice liek this should nto be possible using control shots or normal shots

[tigerofintegrity]

All im reading is , "sinve i canot get Countless free points off my serve and have to actually build points im losing .

Watch the pros man a lot of points are played , there are very little aces on a 3 setter , pne thing that is true and that it is absent from the game is the countless unforced errors that come from a a well placed kick serve , basicly anything that lands near the player is returned and that is not realistic

And you should watch the pros play too then. They don't get 95%+ of serves returned in most matches (unless you're Djokovic in the last couple of months!) and certainly don't get them all returned to brilliant depth. The problem is, you're asking for realism on things like serve, hitting aces, winning points on serve, how slices can be used to attack etc. but not for other things like returning or consistency when hitting top spin shots to the lines. Pretty much all aspects of this game do not mimic rl, it's pretty damn hard to ever make a game that does, so if you want to make something realistic, you kinda have to make it all like that. What you want in the game is to make everything as balanced as possible and to me, the slice is balanced when you relate it to all the other things in the game. It does not feel overpowered when you consider it alongside say the top spin shot in the game.

I am beating Top Spin guys without using slices as offense, I never do. So it is simply not true that this is your only resort. It is more like the easiest counter...why? ..cause they are over powered.

It's not even about whether you can win a match using a single slice or not. It's about you guys wanting it toned down because you feel it's overpowered. If it was irl, then yeah, this type of slice is obviously overpowered but in the context of the game, compared to all the other shots in the game and how it's played, I personally don't feel it's overpowered at all.

[edlglide]

I think the speed is the next thing they have to adjust -- I just played an offensive baseliner with 45 speed on WT. Lost 0-3, 4-3, 9-11 in the tiebreaker. I was routinely pulling him off the court to one side, hitting a shot into the back corner of the court on the opposite side, and he would run over and get it easily. Right now, putting points into speed seems mostly worthless when guys with speed that low can run back and forth across the court and get balls with ease.

[tigerofintegrity]

I think the next thing they should change is probably stamina. When you're tired, you can usually still give the ball a pretty good whack but you'll be slower to react to balls, slower to get to them and since you're in a bad position, more prone to whack them out. That currently doesn't seem to happen enough to low stamina players right now.

[edlglide]

I think the next thing they should change is probably stamina. When you're tired, you can usually still give the ball a pretty good whack but you'll be slower to react to balls, slower to get to them and since you're in a bad position, more prone to whack them out. That currently doesn't seem to happen enough to low stamina players right now.

I think the stamina and speed go hand in hand -- the guy shouldn't have been able to get back and forth across the court the way he did with 45 speed, but if you're going to let them do that, then the stamina should drain very quickly because he is exerting so much effort despite being slow. And when it's actually low, he should be hitting weaker shots or making a lot more errors. He was basically drained of stamina the whole match but it didn't seem to make any difference.

Maybe guys with high speed keep their stamina longer in addition to having a higher base amount? I don't know, but there has to be some solution that makes both speed and stamina more important.

[JJ_DUBZ_87]

Until I get deeper in the game I won't really comment unless I have a burning urge to input something.

I do, however, want to thank the developers for listening to us here at the ITST. It means a lot that they value our input as much as they do.



Oh look at that I just thought of a suggestion

TWEAK THE MOVEMENT!!! The split-step issue is still there. My player with 65 speed or 75 speed and 70 reflexes still feels like a tank. He doesn't take off the way he should. Half the time, I lean the analog stick to the right or left ALL the way and NOTHING happens. That's very frustrating and definitely needs to be tweaked.

I feel that may fall into the speed/stamina category, but we've been dealing with the split-step/player responsiveness issue since day one.

Appreciate it Al keep up the good work bro :tu

[crossers]

Not that i use slice shot alot but it can be an offensive shot look at Steffi Graf she really knifed the ball generated quite a bit of pace with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDUOxgZa ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8RibH0l ... ECE709AD34

[Sherlock 117]

I wrote most of this in another post, but it belongs here as well. I'll phrase it a bit differently.

1) For those of you who are upset about the serve berserker skill being toned down, please remember adjustments to the other monster builds will soon be made to bring them into line with the other builds. For now, the best way to test out the adjustments on this skill are to test how balanced this skill is against a normal setup.

2) My suggestions for changes to specific shots: Tspin shots land close to the sidelines too often. This is the primary cause of players being pulled 20 feet off the court. The timing window needs to be very small for a ball to land close to a line. Actually, top spin shots should probably land the FURTHEST from the lines. Flat shots should land slightly closer to the sidelines than they do now and a lot closer to the baseline. Slice shots should land the closest to both the sideline and baseline while at the same time slowing down the shot slightly.

3) Next build to work on: Obviously bring the strength of TI/MD down significantly. The gains of precision on these two skills need to be dialed down. I think the skills are good but need correct balancing. The TI skill should be counterable (even if the counter is difficult) with normal shots. Maybe it will make the top spin shots get a little more loopy/slow and they should be able to get punished by a flat down the line if overused. Also, the devs should keep in mind this build already gets +50 points, which isn't a big deal IMO unless coupled with the best skill.

4) Speed seems fine to me for now. It's too hard to tell since there are only a few builds. 45 speed should NOT mean movement like a 300 pound dude. It should be below average for a pro tennis player. There should be a slight but noticeable difference in speed between 45 and 65 (which there is) and between 65 and 80, and between 80 and 95. There is! The only reason why we can't tell is because almost no good players are using 90 speed!

5) Increase errors on poorly timed shots (both power AND precision). The more power a player has it should also slightly increase the chance of an error.

Thanks TS4 devs. Please don't give up, this is the most encouraging sign I've ever seen for a tennis game.

[ItaStallion]

i agree with JJ_DUBZ_87 my guy's speed is 72 and feels like a tank moving around the court sometimes...

I think the main problem here with Monster Defence is that it seems to be working all the time not just when your trailing in the game...

Top Spin Invasion is very balanced play a good Borg Player with anyone and you can beat him...

I just mastered the timing on the new serves now so it isn't much of a problem anymore once you get used to it.... my guy's serve stat is 59 as well lol

Good work anyway 2K looks like your heading in the right track.

[edlglide]

My guy has 87 speed, and there is very little difference between the amount of balls he gets to and the amount of balls people with 45 speed are able to get to.

So I couldn't disagree with you more about the speed being fine. I do agree that guys with 45 speed shouldn't be moving like a 300 pound man, but when they are able to get to 90% of the balls, that makes the speed stat useless. The difference between 45 power and 90 power is off the charts. Maybe the difference in speed shouldn't be QUITE that big, but if it stays the way it is anyone who makes a fast player is automatically playing at a disadvantage because one of their main skills doesn't really help them.

Also agree completely about the movement drastically needing a fix. It's possible that's the bigger issue with speed than the actual speed rating, because a lot of time I simply can't get my guy with 87 speed to go where I want him to go. It's actually even worse with my S&V female -- her speed is only in the 60s, but her reflexes are upper 70s or low 80s and half the time she moves around the court like she has a broken leg. It's pretty much impossible to win points as a S&V if you can't get to the net.

[SundanceKid]

Hi everybody!

I just played a few matches so far, but it seems serving to the middle is simply too inefficient.
So as a serve and volley player you only have the option serving outside.

I don't think serve and volley player will have a real chance to survive here.
Sadly!

In contrast i agree the power skill is too dominant.
Because of that i changed my skills. Now i use 75 on power, but i'm not happy with that. I always was a running player. Since Top Spin 1.

But without any power you cannot survive here in TS4.
You can run, run and run, but without power you aren't able to finish the point by a winner.

That's my opinion after a few online matches.
Maybe i am wrong. Hopefully!

[tigerofintegrity]

I agree with Sundancekid. It's hard to be seriously competitive with a defensive player at the top level because of the difficulty in winning points. Errors are practically non-existent in this game, even if you manage to run your opponent's stamina down to nothing. It would make it much more viable if, at the very least, players start missing more frequently when they get tired.

[Rocketsfall]

All im reading is , "sinve i canot get Countless free points off my serve and have to actually build points im losing .

Watch the pros man a lot of points are played , there are very little aces on a 3 setter , pne thing that is true and that it is absent from the game is the countless unforced errors that come from a a well placed kick serve , basicly anything that lands near the player is returned and that is not realistic

If that is what you are reading, then I am not expressing myself correctly.
S&V already was the weakest play style, now it has become even weaker since serving has become more difficult and less effective. And that's even regardless the SSB skill.
Yes, keeping the points shorts, getting free points off the serve is also a way of playing tennis.

Damn, this almost makes me want to make an offensive baseliner.

EDIT: Just played my itst match with Hollaa itz Mike. Same story. They f*cked it up even more than I thought. Why would I, as a S&V'er who already uses the weakest play style, start this game from scratch while the TI/MD players can just go on with their totally overpowered setups? I quit the match being 6-2 6-0 down. Sorry Mike, nothing personal.
I'm not going to S&V anymore until the game really is balanced.

[edlglide]

The weaker/easier to return serves don't really bother me when I play S&V -- I didn't typically get aces before with my female S&V or when I played with Sampras in 2K Open. I actually think the S&V is fine with the serve changes; I still win most of my service points right away. I'm on a 6 match winning streak with Sampras right now in 2K Open.

My big problem with S&V is the split step/stutter step problem. When that happens when you are trying to S&V it's absolutely impossible to win; you get stuck in no man's land on almost every point because you can't get your player up to the net.

EDIT: I'm probably going to be in trouble in ITST against people who really know what they are doing though -- as of right now I'm playing with a S&V female and a defensive baseline male. I have an all-around male and another one who's more of an offensive baseliner, but I like using the defensive guy just for a different play style and I plan on sticking with him.