Yippie-Caiay wrote:this shots in full ace would be tapping the topspin button, but the problem is that if you want to raise the speed by double tapping the topspin button, the shot is too risky i think there is a step missing between those too..
"Tapping" topspin shots in the current demo are too slow, that is already fixed in the development version. When you double tap, how long you press the button the second time makes the shot more or less powerful and therefore risky.
Yippie-Caiay wrote:strong shots should be easier too when you are in control of the point, and i think timing should be a more important factor in every shot..i have the feeling that there is no determinating factor in the ... "succesfullness" of the shots (you get what i mean), as height is in the super hard shots in dream match tennis i dont know when to hit a strong shot cause i always get the feeling that the game will randomly determine if the shot will go in or out
I designed the strong shots to be the stroke of choice when you're inside the court on a slow, high bouncing ball. Using them during rallies is possible, but often highly risky. According to me, there would be no reason that a strong shot would succeed if you hit the ball higher than, say, 1m and fail if it's under. It's a mix of all parameters (height, speed, positioning, player abilities) that make it succeed or fail. Tennis is much more complex than having a single determinating factor of success.
But try hitting strong shots on balls that are at knee height. I don't think many will go in.
djarvik wrote:I think your "thinking" is that if you make a game precise, then at some point someone will master it and will stop missing? right? ....like serving etc...
Indeed, that is what I think.
djarvik wrote:...if thats the case, then you DO have a point. But I strongly disagree with the solution, the solution by means of "randomization". That is just not the way to go in my opinion. I keep looking and complaining about lack of control in every tennis game out there (got em all, played them all). That is the biggest obstical in creating a good SIM. Being able to control to the tee the ball is the ultimate SIM.
I'm going to clarify my opinion. I'm emphasizing on the fact that it is my opinion, I don't want to force it on you, I just expect you to see that it's a valid one, as yours is.
There is only so much information you can extract from a keyboard or a gamepad. As it is, a keyboard is already barely enough to cover Full Ace's preparation system in an ergonomic way. No matter what you do, it will never provide as many information as your racket and whole body while hitting a ball in real life. Plus this information is only sampled 50 times per second, at best, which is ridiculously little during the small time it takes to swing the ball.
On that basis, I take for a fact that any system that always delivers the exact same outcome from the exact same player interaction will result in players mastering it completely and doing things that are unrealistic in real tennis. The more difficult it is, the less players will get there. But they will, and when they reach this point, the game doesn't look like a simulation anymore, it looks completely arcade to me (like a much more complicated Pong, if you will). At that point, it's not about tennis anymore. It's about begin good at "this video game", the way it manages interaction. Also, the more difficult, the less players will actually hang on to the game.
djarvik wrote:It is a tough "problem" with no clear solution, but DMT got it pretty good. Almost perfect.
I think you can imagine that if I was happy with DMT's gameplay, I wouldn't have thought there was room for another tennis game.
I'm trying to bring in a solution that hasn't been exploited yet as far as I know, and even if you have concerns about it, I don't think you can blame me for that.
jayl0ve wrote:I haven't played this game yet but I must say that randomness in any 1-on-1 competition game like this is a bad idea. Nobody wants to lose because the AI decides you must lose this point
I think many people are overreacting to the notion of randomness. I can't blame you, I also hate games where you feel like (and it's usually a fact) the AI chooses arbitrarily when you succeed or not. A good example is Pro Evolution Soccer (up to 6, stopped buying then). To make a pass, you only have to aim and tap the pass button, and most of the time it works, and is a perfect pass, but sometimes it fails, without particular reason. More than that, when it fails, most of the time it goes straight to your opponent's feet.
In real life sports, failing is not this way. Take a pro dart player, for instance. He will be able to reach for the center spot 10 times in a row. But will he hit the exact center point of this spot each time ? Of course not. When he fails, will the dart most likely go outside the board altogether ? No, it's going to be just outside the center spot.
This is the kind of
controlled randomness Full Ace includes in your shots. It's not AI determined, it's an alteration which is added on all shots (Player or CPU) using the same factors and the same maths. It is what makes the CPU players fail too. It probably still needs tuning, which is why things seem arbitrarily random at times (I feel this way sometimes when I play too ! But it's way better now than a few months ago, and will continue to improve). It's there so you can't rely on your shots going always exactly where you aim, as it is in real life (I've been told long ago that in an interview, when asked if he aimed for the lines, Pete Sampras answered something like this :"It's way too risky ! I aim 10 centimeters inside").
So, yes, sometimes you'll do everything correctly, be confident enough to aim for the line and the ball will go out just a little (it even happens to Federer sometimes !
). And (very) rarely you'll attempt an impossible shot in an impossible position and it will miraculously succeed. That's something I love about real life tennis ! But what will matter overall, as in real life, is how you perform in the long run, how you deal with risks and how well you play crucial points.
Now, I will be going back to work on the game. Well, after I have answered Q. Reese
I said if the ball is way in front you should not be able to hit it in, you should miss. Same if you let go the ball to far back.
Thanks for the praising man ! We can really use some word of mouth to let people know about the game. And the more people play, the more and the quicker I'll be able to put all my ideas in 
shot, you can double tap to hit a flatter shot just like rafa would do...(actually i think the double tap shot is already settled like it should be but the slower topspin shot should be faster, closer to the ground with the "spin" rating having much more inflence)..